A Reckoning

Moments like these beg the question:  is it better to be a fan or should we all find another hobby?

Maryland has never beaten an ACC opponent the way Duke trounced the Terps today.

41 point loss.  The Terps only scored 44 points.

Herm Edwards was ridiculed for telling the Chiefs they “could build on this!” after winning their first game of the 2008 season (preceded by five lossess).  It’s funny but was he supposed to say? He coaches the team after all.

It is a good question.  What on Earth does Gary Williams say to this team after this drubbing?  They completely quit on each other and then team.  There’s plenty of blame to go around but the bottom line is that the players don’t believe in their teammates or Gary’s system.

The team disgraced themselves on the court with their total lack of effort.  The University has been embarrassed in front a national TV audience.

This season is lost.  You show me a team that loses a conference game by 41 points and still makes the NCAA Tournament and I’ll start to believe.

Is this the absolute low point?  Can it get worse than this?

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137 Comments

  1. Of course it can get worse. In a perverted way of thinking it has to get worse so we can rebuild the program again. For you GW haters they need to put up efforts like this for the rest of their games so he will resign and the team will start over. It’s all about getting the right talent and GW has not done that. We are a nice D2 team but are now officially one of the worst teams in the ACC or any other major conference. A loss at Cameron is one thing, but not being competitive in any way shows a much deeper problem and one is leadership.

  2. Well I am no Gary Williams apologists, and I saw this coming probably around the 04 year, when GW started to recruit nationally instead of missing the wealth of talent locally. Its seems that many of you ARE Gary Williams apologists, and many of you believe Rock Bottom occured today, when in actually it came in the off season after we won the ACC Championship and GW instead of telling John Gilchrist to go along and be a lottery pick in the NBA Draft, persuaded Gilchrist to stay, and then when the going got tough do to injuries and Gary’s poor recruiting, GW blamed the whole entire thing on Glichrist, raping him through the coals and the media. Stock plummeted and now he’s over in Israel someplace. The bad part was that many Gary apologists applauded Gary’s remarks towards Gilchrist, although he had won us an ACC Championship almost singlehandedly. Gary forgot that the kids well being receives the top priority.

    And now its happening all over again to GV. The guy is an NBA talent, and you can’t win by yourself when you’re playing with bums. Does he talk sure, but is he leading the Terps in 12 different categories, yes. So why not get on Gary for his recruiting. Its everybody’s fault but Gary’s. We blame everyone

    1. GV
    2. Gilchrist or Canter-Medley
    3. Dook, the refs
    4. Other schools for taking our players, messed up recruiting practices,
    5. The fans who don’t understand the history of MD basketball
    6. Gary recruits lesser knowns and makes them into champs, so you have to deal with it when it doesn’t work out.

    ………156. Gary Williams

    Well now MD is getting exactly what it deserves. All that yelling and screaming and blaming others is resulting in blowouts by 40 pts. Good I’m glad. Go get the guy from VCU or anybody but GW.

  3. I’m not the only one that thinks they quit.

    http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2009/01/24/duke-runs-maryland-right-out-of-cameron/

  4. Oh yeah, I graduated from MD, with plenty of pride, and honor. We have lost both.

  5. The team stopped playing? Ok again, lets just forget that the team was down 20 before they packed it in. Lets just forget the fact that the team lacks a guy over 6″8 in D1 ball, before they packed it in. Lets forget the fact that Gary doesn’t recruit anyone and signed a 13 million dollar contract over X number of years, before they packed it in.

    Its all their fault. Its all Grevis Vasquez’s fault who torched Duke in the past with a better team, and now he plays with bums and can’t perform the same.

    Let’s even forget that there are ways to coach a smaller team (although a team with more talent helps), but Gary Williams coaches a flex offense/in-n-out game which both he can’t due with this lack of talent………………..before they packed it in.

  6. I doubt that the Terps quit. One thing you learn from playing sports is that when things are going bad, your energy is sapped and you feel defeated, no matter how much you want to turn it on. It is an involuntary reaction. And when you are sailing high to victory, you do not even think about getting tired or trying. The momentum carries you. This was just a case of being outplayed by a better team.

    To me, it all comes down to recruiting. The Terps today are paying for lousy recruiting in past years, all the 3 star guys who are not ACC starter material. Some of it is bad luck. The Gus Gilcrist and Terrence Jennings fiascos. Who could have forecasted that Braxton Dupree would be so invisible or that Eric Hayes would get intimidated so easily and shut down when he is needed the most?

    2010 is the key year. The 2009 bigs will set the table for a superb 2010 class. if that doesn’t happen, then it is time to reevaluate the whole situation. We will know in a few months.

  7. Embarrassing. So disappointing. That’s all I’ve got right now. I need time before I can even begin to analyze what I just witnessed. Awful.

  8. Jeremy, the Terps beat UNC by 32 (yeah it’s not 41 but it’s still a rout) in the 2001-2002 season.

  9. DBR,

    33 (112-79), but who’s counting?

  10. Yes, Get rid of Gary. Look how well my old school is doing once they dumped me.

  11. By all means dump the hall of fame coach Gary Williams. You only need to see how well my former school has been doing since I was dumped.

  12. Yes, Dump Gary. Just like Indiana dumped me. Indywho?

  13. Dump Gary and wait ten years to be ranked again

  14. Dump Gary and be a bottom dweller for 6 years. Then he will go to another school and get to the final 8, just like me.

  15. Hows that Michigan team doing since they ran me out? Lloyd Carr do you want to weigh in on this as well?

  16. You guys are kidding right? How many times have we been to the NIT? And this year we might not even get there? How much worse can it get for us?

  17. Thank Gary for all that he has done for the school, and then send him packing. We have to restart building sometime, why not now?

  18. Last year:
    Vanderbilt 93, Kentucky 52

    That was on Feb. 12 to give UK a 12-10 record. It made the tournament.

  19. Looking at the stats for today, Landon is the only Terp that came to play. Hayes followed a double double performance with 2 points, and Bowie wasn’t any better. Vasquez has disappeared since his run-in with the fans at Comcast. If he is going to the NBA at the end of this season then so am I. If a player can’t get up to play Dook at Dook, then something is wrong. We can’t possibly win a game with that lack of production.

    I see our guys dribble penetrate toward the basket, and you know what is going to happen – they are double and triple teamed, but they never dump the ball to an open team mate. They just take it to the rack and get stuffed, lose the ball, or take what has become a very difficult shot in the midst of three opponents. Where is all of the sharp passing from all of the supposedly great ball handlers on our team? No half court game whatsoever.

  20. Well, I imagine that even the staunchest Gary supporters are seeing a timeline of some sort, be it this season or the next or the next. He needs to find a miracle fast, because even if you are a diehard, fruit loop Garyanna, this shit won’t pass for acceptable very long….particularly if you are giving money to the program. Gary will go when the boosters turn on him.

    Personally, I don’t like blaming Gary. But I certainly hold him accountable for what he is accontable for, which suprisingly boils down to the W/L record of the team. Also, the roster, the morale of the team and the morale of the fans. The state of the union, dig?I personally would start courting Mark Few, and if the season snowballs further, make the switch. It’s business. Gary is as inflexible as any coach there is, and he won’t change.

    For the team, I always think that they are great and “just had a bad game.” But after so many bad games, you just got to admit sometimes that the team is just stinky. Today is that day. I won’t give up till the math tells me to give up.

    I got us whipping BC by 19, but it won’t happen. I had us losing today by only 23. I had us beating NC. I had us going to the sweet 16 next year on the arm of Bowie. Right now, I don’t have confidence to win even 5 games. That’s the worst part….lack of confidence. I won’t give up on the miracle though.

    This is the bottom rung of the ladder. By Wednesday, we will still be on the bottom rung or we will be move one rung up. I don’t think we have the tools to move more than one rung at a time, but if we are still on the bottom by Wed, the season’s a bust and I schedule a lunch with Few….but that’s just me.

  21. Actually, you guys are using the wrong UNC reference. The one in 01-02 was the most points scored against UNC by an ACC opponent. The one in 02-03 was the biggest margin of victory by one ACC school over UNC: 96-56

  22. Wait so this is what it has boiled down to in Garyland (I have the tee-shirt). Basically naming old coaches who lift programs that subsequently did bad after they left? Really. That’s your defense for keeping him, I guess we’re in for more NITs until Gary’s contract runs out.

    Tark- NCAA violations galore. Remember the pool shot of Larry Johnson and the starting five in the pool of some millionaire booster.

    Bobby Knight – Don’t you remember the coach of the team the Terps beat to win the ‘chip.

    Lets get a who’s the next coach of the Terps thread going.

  23. Chrs0049 is right. The game in the ’02-03 season is the one I really wanted to point out. And props to furrer4heisman for bringing up the Kentucky team last year. Got routed in a conference game, lost in the first round of the SEC tournament but got into the NCAA and made it to the 2nd round…finished 18-13 or something like that.

    So there is hope for the Terps…or not so much.

  24. Yanik,

    You need a coach who can recruit local talent. Mark Few ain’t your man. A good coach, teacher of the game, yada yada. Actually, a Gary without sweat-soaked suits and of serener demeanor. The “best man” for MD right now is the best recruiter. And at the risk of sending a shiver up your sphincter, I think he needs to be…. Well, you know what I think,.

  25. DBR — While I’d LOVE to make comparisons to this team and the 02-03 Tar Heels, the only similarity is that one blowout loss. That UNC team had Felton, McCants and May as sophs and a couple other studs as freshmen with good recruiting classes coming in the next couple years.

    The major contributors on our team are Milbourne, Vasquez and Bowie – but GV might be gone after this year and MIlbourne will be a senior next year. Bowie is the only member from his class that is showing signs of being a real player in the future. Tucker has apparently worked himself into Gary’s doghouse, Gregory is a rotational player at best, Walker transferred and Dupree… well I think we all feel the same about Dupree.

    03 UNC was a young team w/ poor guidance (Doughtery was not a good head coach) but they developed enough over that season to be national players the following year and eventually would win the title in two years. I mean, hell, that team ended up BEATING Maryland in the first round of the ACC tournament that year. I just don’t see that sort of improvement from Maryland this year… in fact since they entered ACC play they seem to be headed in the other direction.

  26. The Kentucky comparison is kind of flawed because I believe they ended up finishing 2nd in the conference in the regular season so what was the committee going to do? Only take the regular season and tournament champ (Georgia and Tennessee?) I think it is safe to say MD will not be finishing 2nd in the ACC regular season. Plus Kentucky will always get the benefit of the doubt because of who they are, they have history and crazy fan base that will travel anywhere….plus Ashley Judd and that doesn’t hurt.

  27. The comparison wasn’t to the team that beat the Tar Holes by 40…Jeremy asked in this post if UMD had ever beaten an ACC opponent the way they got trounced today. Chrs0049 and I were just pointing out that the Terps have done so.

    And Jeremy asked for someone to show him a team that got beat by 40 and still made the tournament…that heisman dude pointed out Kentucky did it. Not to say that this Terp team can do it too…just that it’s been done. That’s all.

    Meanwhile…Don’t ask me why I did it but I just finished watching the 2nd half of the game. I missed it because I had to leave to help out at a charity event. I was glad Gary sat GV down after his intentional foul. He needed to be benched. When the game was over ESPN switched to the USF/Villanova game in progress. USF has the ball…passes to Gilchrist and he sinks a 10 footer on the baseline. How did Jeremy put it in a thread earlier this month? Oh yeah…hi wound I’m salt.

    Oh…hopefully my math is better this time around…I looked at the stats and if you take away Landon Milbourne and the rest of the team shot 9-for-48 for the game. That’s 19%.

  28. That truly was a piss-poor effort by the Terps……they got embarrassed on National TV and they should be ashamed of themselves, GW too as he did not have them in a position to win. Gots’ to shake off this ankle-grabbing and prepare and work even harder for BC on Tuesday.

    I love GW, and he will leave on his own accord in the next couple of years, he will never be fired as he is the biggest draw at UMCP for ALL events…truefax………

    We all know that GW doesn’t like recruiting, and that has bit us in the arse, moreover we also know that he hates ass-patting these AAU kids, as you must do in this day in age in College BBall. Further, we also know that we have missed the boat on landing and cultivating local top-flight talent.

    So…………to all the Gary bashers out there…..we are to assume that a new Head coach will be able to cure all of these deficiencies…. AND will be able to get these kids to qualify to play at MD while GW couldn’t?? GW deserves the lion share of the blame, but all the GW bashers and haters forget and never mention the fact that it’s hard to get these ballers’ to qualify to play at MD, which has NOTHING to do with GW and everything to do with our Alma matar have academic standards and being a State University.

    I’m madder than hell at the state of our program, but I would rather we kept our ethics, than go down that slippery slope. It certainly IS possible that a new head coach could re-energize our program and sell the vision of playing MD basketball better than GW can do at this point in landing these Unicorn players….but to automatically assume that all our problems will be solved, and “those” type of players will be cleared to play at MD is naive to say the least.

    Go Terps!!!!!!!!!

  29. ***POSTED BY SOMEONE ON ANOTHER FORUM THAT I HAPPENED TO COME ACROSS***

    You guys are always so quick to blame Gary and lay blame. Gary busts his ass recruiting and anyone who suggests otherwise is just ignorant.

    I heard an ignorant interview the other day with Jimmy Patsos, the head coach of Loyola Mens’ Basketball team, and former assistant to Gary Williams.

    Patsos spoke of how two top recruits were committed to coming to Maryland this past year- but the college would not grant them eligibility- and therefore they signed with other top D-I schools (Tennessee and somewhere else I think..)

    Gary does his recruiting honestly and diligently- and his hands are apparently tied in some cases by his own institution. The best part about it is, HE DOESN’T CRY ABOUT IT! He does his job- and he makes the best of the team he DOES HAVE.

    I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to work hard to get a top guy to commit- only to then have him denied admission. Surely just about every other top school is AT LEAST bending their academic requirements- IF NOT MORE- to entice the top athletes to choose their schools.

    So to all of you whiners and cry babies declaring Williams should be fired- go somewhere else. It’s unfair blame and you obviously don’t know the whole story.

  30. NYMets 9631. You’re right. Much of the anti-GW crap is “emotional diatribe” .

    One bad loss doesn’t make us irrelevant, nor does one great win make us relevant. We are a team searching for its sould and its character.

    The most important game is the next one.

  31. Well, this at least will put to rest all of the speculation about the post season. Forget the NCAA or NIT tournments. If they keep playing like this they’ll be lucky to get invited to the ACC tournement

  32. 5 bad seasons, soon to be 6, make us irrelevant. Losing every major local recruit makes us irrelevant. Gary homers, stop drinking the cool aid.

  33. As my buddy said today and I agree…. losing at home to Ohio, American, and Morgan State is far more embarrassing than getting crushed by the nation’s #1 team.

    That being said, I don’t have much faith for the rest of this season due to our lack of confidence and sometimes defeatest attitude.

    I am confident that we have some players that can really be true Terps in the next few years in Mosley, MIlbourne, and Bowie (if he can learn to play less selfishly). This program will be back because Gary or whoever will be here can find local talent because the area is filled with it. We have had some lazy recruiting years and we have had some pure bad luck. It’ll be a struggle at times, but we’ll be back.

    As for this year, we’ll know in the first 5 minutes of Tuesday night’s game whether this team has some fight in it, or we’ll play out the string and end up with 4 or 5 conference wins.

  34. UMD is whack! I would much rather send my kids to Duke, Gtown, UNC, UVA or even Va Tech than UMD.

    Also, no one cares about UMD basketball in the Metro D.C area.

  35. Obviously, someone cares or this site wouldn’t exist. Love those moronic comments.

  36. No law against bein’ stoopid.

    Go Terps!

  37. hey, let’s be realistic
    . I do not see a way to not blame coach Williams. Gary gives them the scholarship and does the teaching. This Gary recruits hard , NO RESULTS. Why don’t we see that and do something about it.If you can reasons to blames the players, then sure as hell have to blame the coach that went and got them.

  38. FF….sounds like you’re picking on me. I don’t know how in God’s Name Mark Few gets better talent than us in a tiny obscure school with only 7000 people, but he does, and he’s in the top 25 every year with them. But Few is just a gut win for me. I would also court Mike Brey from Notre Dame, who is from the area, having played for and assisting with Morgan Wooten for 7 years. Then he assisted at Duke for 8 years — hey, know thine enemy. You think he’d turn down a chance to battle his mentor twice a year? Only the 4th man in history to win back to back Big East Coach of the Year. On paper, he’s perfect. I would be giddy to have him coach the first game on Gary Court next year.

    http://www.hitrunscore.com/mike-brey-biography.html

  39. Let’s face it, WE DON’T HAVE THE TALENT!!!! That’s on Gary. Look, I’ll give G-Dub all the credit in the world for the final fours and the Championship but right now we don’t have the horses.

  40. The post that NYMets shared above states “Surely just about every other top school is AT LEAST bending their academic requirements”.
    We’ve all heard about Duke’s “3 year degree”, its clear that schools like Tenn (Williams and Maze) have lower stds, we’ve heard of certain GTown players that wanted to play for MD but couldnt qualify, etc.
    Can anyone give specific facts and details about MD’s academic qualifications? Can anyone just identify how much harder it is to qualify at MD vs the other ACC schools? Is this such a roadblock to talent that we can expect MD to be mediocre from now on?

  41. I’d take the one and dones right now.

  42. Yanik…Yeah, I’m still smarting from the blowback (including your clenched-up sphincter metaphor) against my suggestion on previous threads that MD needs to hire a solid black coach. It’s all about getting the talent–in this case local talent, where JTIII is cleaning our clock. Even John Wooden at his zenith admitted he would never have compiled his nonpareil record absent the talent he was able to reel in year after frigging year. All props to Mark Few, as teacher and coach. But a quick glance at the Gonzaga roster suggests he draws most of his talent from the West, including British Columbia. It will take him several years to build relationships in the DC area and other round ball hotspots on the East Coast. True, Brey has put together an impressive resume–a great coach, no quibbles here. But don’t forget the head start ND has with the Catholic schoolboy circuit. It’s a huge recruiting advantage. Harangody and McAlarney, to name the Irish’s leading scorers, are Catholic prep school products. Others are ND legacies. There is no evidence on the Irish roster of Brey working our local vineyards, though I’m willing to stipulate he would have a gentler learning curve mastering the landscape. Before I’d settle for Few or Brey (who could be in line for the Duke job when Krybaby steps down), I’d go after Jamie Dixon at Pitt. But I still feel it’s time for MD to seriously pursue a black coach who can help us reload. Anthony Grant at VCU comes immediately to mind, maybe Dave Dickerson at Tulane. And yes, even Craig Harrison.

    For all those on this blog who deride GW’s critics as “Gary haters,” let’s keep things in perspective. It’s not that we love Gary less, but Terps’ basketball more. For his sake and ours, I hope he steps down gracefully and isn’t pushed out, to his and the school’s embarrassment. Also, I doubt that his 2012 contract will be a barrier to buying him out if things reach that pass. It’s not as though his multi-million dollar take-home pay is in salary. Most of it derives from shoe contracts and summer camps, I believe.

    No hard feelings, Yanik. Your shamanistic posts are a hoot.

  43. I’d give Dave Dickerson a shot. We need a young cat who doesn’t mind going into some living rooms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  44. I too would wish coach W would just step down. And no we are very relevant anymore.We are undermanned, that is plain to see. Dave Neal hardly got on the court til his senior year. And there was a reason for that. Now he is one of our steadier players. If we continue this way for a couple of more years, it will be sad to watch. Getting or not getting to the NIT is not the status of a relevant team.

  45. gbx79

    What is Duke’s “3 year degree”?

  46. I just want to see the team that beat Carolina at home last year….the team that beat Michicgan State this year….we just never know what team is going to show up….is that coaching….yep!

  47. Yanik, I meant Craig Robinson. I’m operating on little sleep.

  48. I’ll break my self-imposed hiatus to answer the admissions question. While I do not know MD’s exact admission standards, I know the general process. The NCAA sets baseline standards that any NCAA sanctioned school uses to grant a scholarship (e.g., the sliding GPA/SAT scale), but each school admits prospective students based on their own requirements (core classes taken, GPA in core classes, SAT scores) that are normally more stringent than the NCAA’s.

    Each school in the ACC (aside from Dook and BooVa…so they say) holds a certain number of “special admits” each year. Special admits are students who do not meet the normal school requirements but still meet NCAA requirements and are let in to the school. MD uses a committee of faculty and staff to decide on special admits (see Tyree Evans from last year).

    Are MD’s requirements more stringent? I’ve heard that MD requires 1 more core class in math/science than other schools (MD lost Shane Clark to Nova on this one I think…and lost a 4 star safety to VaTech a few years back on it, too).. I’ve seen old “special admit” numbers, and if I recall, MD allows just as many special admits as most school in the ACC…again, aside from Dook and BooVa (see Cville police blotter for contrarian data on that).

    But let’s be honest here. There are plenty of local kids that meet normal MD admission requirements that do not come to MD. Someone asked about the local glut of top flight PGs in the area who all intend to sign elsewhere. Tyler Thorton from Gonzaga has no academic issues. The kids from DeMatha have no issues. The kids from O’Connell have no issues. Jelani Jenkins from GC, the second or third rated football recruit in the nation, has no academic issues. I’m sure that almost all kids playing in the BCL have no issues with this.

    You all who think that MD has a disadvantage in recruiting based on admission standards are barking up the wrong tree. You’re looking at the exceptions not the rule. Gary has no problem getting in the vast majority of his recruits, who, based upon his stellar record of graduating his players, seem to excel less in the classroom than they do on the court.

    Okay, so MD won’t allow Huggy Bear or Calipari type recruiting. Shame on them for that (sarcasm). Let’s put it this way. If Roy Williams coached at MD, he’d get the same recruits here as he does at UNC or did at KU. You all are really stretching here…

  49. Amen to Wheels’ post. The only thing I would add is that Duke and UVa have “special admits” too, but don’t admit it. There’s no way the majority of their players reach the 1300 SAT bar for getting into these places. I personally know of one starter on a Duke championship team who was admitted with 700 SATs. If GW is falling down on enticing blue chip talent to MD, it isn’t because the admissions office and faculty is standing in the schoolhouse door.

  50. I believe I read in some book that Mike Brey doesn’t want to coach against Duke unless forced to by a tournament match up. Won’t schedule them for a non-conference game…loves the school and coach K. Some speculate he wants to be the replacement for coach K.

    ND gave Brey a contract extension at the end of last year…for now he seems happy at ND.

  51. As somebody mentioned, well many people mentioned…we do not have the talent. The team we are putting on the floor looks like a high school team, what do we think is gonna happen when we go against a Duke or UNC. We have no big man, no quality pg, and NO good shooters. If we are gonna start basi cally 4 guards, and Dave freaking Neal we better have some shooters on the floor. Many people including myslelf had some hopes for this season because we all thought we were going to play small, shoot well, almost play like that Duke team. Well obviously that recipee is not going to work for us because im almost certain i can hit more open shots than the majority of our backcourt. Vaz is ugly to watrch as of late his shooting mechanics are poor, Hayes is terrified i know he had A good game but dont expect much more he cant handle the rock, Dupree is soft he wont contribute, Neal is just overmatched i like his effort but he couldnt make many ACC squads as a walk on, I like Bowie’s quickness shows maybe we got a pg in the future but he needs to stop making so many mental mistakes. The more and more i look at this team the more and more i realize we are simply not a contender anymore. We are the Ninth or Tenth best team in our conference.

  52. enough is enough. We have a no talent team-bottom line. Yes, it is GW’s fault-he isn’t interested in recruiting. To think that our “best ” player Vasquez would have sat on the bench if he were on our natl champion team. I’m so tired of seeing Gary screaming at them. Our players don’t give a crap about MD . They only play for the scouts . So yes, let’s lose the rest of the games , not go to NcAA’s Again and then Maybe we can fire Gary and start rebuilding

  53. A PG should show up in the 2010 class. A good one, not a Parrish Brown juco type. Bowie is learning, but he does not produce enough penetration as a team. He can create his own slash moves, but i don’t see him organizing the team to move forward. Either he drives himself if he sees an opening, or he looks for his open long range shot, or he pulls back and passes. I do like his game. He could develop so that when it is his turn to take over, he can do OK–my guess is that he will. But the Terps can’t rely on significant improvement from Adrian. A team needs at least two top point guards, like Duke has. We were reading about their two PGs when they were HS stars.

  54. I started to read “A March to Madness” by that Dookie Fienstein and caught this excerpt on like pg 4 of the book:
    ” He’s lost interest. He isn’t working at recruiting, that’s why we aren’t getting any players…”

    That line came from a MD booster about Gary in 1996 after MD lost in the first round of the tournament (College of Charleston I think?)….kind of funny to see that after 13 years the criticisms of GW are still the same.

  55. Jeremy writes on emotion. Season lost! A new low! That’s the kind of stuff you get from him each week. He bleeds for the Terps but can’t really see past his anger at being let down by his team.

    Gregg comes with more of the analytical stuff. What went wrong…what do we do to fix it. That is more my cup of tea.

    A loss is a loss. It was a poor showing by a team that looked shaky and unsure of themselves. Hayes wouldn’t pull the trigger on those threes and Neal got just abused down low.

    In the past we have been a good match-up for Duke because we had some guys that hurt them down low. Obviously that isn’t the case any longer.

    We lost two heart breakers and won our other two contests in the ACC prior to the Duke game. How does that make us the worst team in the ACC?

    I fully expect this team to come out ready to play next Tuesday. They need to play loose and attack on offense. There were VERY tentative on Saturday.

    Why don’t we let the season play out before we bury this team?

  56. Like Wheels, I’m back from self imposed hiatus because I’m getting very tired of the so called “Gary apologists” defending our coach’s failures because “Gary doesn’t like to recruit, so you have to understand and accept the reason for our decline” It’s just Gary being Gary.

    Recruiting has to be one of the top three responsibilities in a coach’s job description, so how can anybody rationalize this failure as OK because Gary doesn’t like to do it. If you don’t like doing one of your major job descriptions, then find another job. These are the same people who often say Gary likes to get “under the radar kids “and get more out of them than other coaches. Can you imagine any coach in the USA who would rather get an “under the radar kid” than a 5 star recruit. Totally rediculous.

    Great talent can overcome bad coaching, but no amount of coaching can get
    continued results from poor talent. Not an earth shaking statement, but some of us seem not to want to face this basic fact because it then brings Gary’s inability to win into the hard reality .

    I don’t consider myself a Gary basher nor a Gary supporter, but I try to look at reality, and those of us who still think Gary is fulfilling his job description, as it relates to recruiting, is living in a dream world.

  57. Terp96 – Wasn’t GW’s slate wiped clean in 2001 with the NC?

    Ricksterps – Good post. Both Gregg and Jeremy bring a different menu to the table. AL V could take a page or 2 from Jeremy’s remarks about the terps. AL V might be more coherent if he borrowed some of Jeremy’s “style”.

    I like Hayes, he has flashes of “the right stuff” but other teams know he does NOT have a “hair trigger” on his shot and they are putting the cuffs on him. Hayes is a much better player without the ball. Don’t know why he’s missing so wide open 3’s of late unless his sphincter muscle tighens up on him. He’s also easy to trap when he is playing PG.

    One of the problems at Dook was, whoever had the ball, AB,EH, GV were picking up their dribble then looking to pass. In fact, we had no passing game. Dook excels at moving the ball around off the dribble. We gave them sooooo many wide open looks at 3’s, they got giddy about it.

    We slhould have zoned them immediatly after tip-off. Off the man to man their guards got to the middle with relative ease. They hit the short J’s and we couldn’t buy one from the same range. Landon’s short J is a line drive and that’s why he’s missing. GV has too much arc on his 3’s with same result.

    I don’t believe they played “tentative”. It was more like they got ” trapped and swallowed ” with the rock and couldn’t dish it off. It really did look like HS ball.

    Kudos to Dook Scouts- they did their homework and took us to school.

    GW probably needs to shake them up before Tues.

    Go Terps

  58. “Took us to school”??–More like to the woodshed, where the Dookies laid the wood on us.

    Look to my mind, the way to enjoy this season is to appreciate this team for what it is: a group of hard-working overachievers who aren’t likely to make it to the tournament. (Saturday’s game was the only contest this season I can remember them showing quit.) For the time being I’m fine (or is the word “resigned”?) with who they are, but not hardly with the relentless slide the program has been on these past four or five years.

  59. Gerry – My point was that it is funny that the same idea was in the mind of some Terp fans back then as now, 13 years later. Nothing has really changed just the team isn’t winning like they used. The irony is that as that quote was being said Gary (or his assistants) were just getting the commitments from Blake, Dixon and Baxter.

  60. terpfan– good post I agree with most of it. How come when we do not bring in a top twenty five signing class, coach likes to get kids under the radar. Hell nobody likes bring in the whole class under the radar. You like to sneak one in sometimes. The under the radar teams usually play in the NIT if they are lucky. terp 75– you say something that i see as wrong. We do not play for the scouts, because there are not that many that the scouts come to see. And our players DO CARE about the team that was an unfair statement.

  61. Oh Christ. Like a recurring nightmare…I’m channel surfing and land on ESPNU and guess what’s on? Duke/Maryland. And I was fortunate to land on the game right when Braxton Dupree shoots a jump hook airball from about 5 feet. Mercy.

  62. How about a shout out to the Women’s team? They came to play against a formerly #2 Carolina team that had lost two straight. The Terps played a 6-women rotation against a nine-deep Carolina team.

    The interesting thing for this board is that, much like the Men’s team, the Terps lost both their inside players (Langhorne, Harper vs. Gist, Osby). But Frese had solid replacements lined up (Kizer, Fr, 10 pts. 9 reb & Juco transfer Liles (12 pts, 15 boards). Meanwhile, GW had Burney, Dupree, Dino & Neal (who I love, but really shouldn’t be starting on an ACC team).

    The best part is that my 12yo daughter and I sat behind a section of very quiet Tar Heel fans. Nothing could be finer…

    Let’s see, it cost me $18 to take my girl to the Women’s game. I paid $80 for tix to Tuesday night’s game (w/ 15yo daughter) against BC. Where am I getting the most value?

  63. The huge difference is unlike with the men’s program, Brenda has kept the Lady TERPS very relevent since her NC. Look at the top 50 recruiting pages, many of them list the TERPS. Sure we don’t get them all, but we do get the key pieces we need to stay on top. She has also lost assistant coaches and managed to keep it going strong. Props to the Lady TERPS!!

  64. Brenda has out done GW since she got here but you can’t really compare mens/women’s bball b/c there is a ton more depth of programs for kids to choose from on the men’s side.
    There is no question that Gary is on the way out, but whether it happens fast or slow depends on him. This year and next are locks unless he gets caught misbehaving. He could be done as soon as 2010 if our mediocrity continues. The sad thing is that he EARNED a lifetime gig w. the NC but he’s blown it by letting the program regress. as much as it hurts to say it, we’re simply not UNC or Duke but we are the 3rd best program in the ACC and we SHOULD go to the tournament virtually every year. That isn’t an unrealistic expectation for MD basketball.

    When he goes…a Maryland man or a Maryland fan should take over. Dave Dickerson or Chuck D if they’re ready, Mike Lonergan if they’re not.

  65. TerpFever,
    Sorry, missed your question earlier.
    See http://www.truthaboutduke.com/encyc.php?encycid=45 re the Duke 3 year degree.

    Wheels,
    Thanks for the input to my questions, well stated. Can we chase the ‘higher admissions’ boogie man back into the closet now?

  66. Umm, better value TerpFever? ITS WOMENS BASKETBALL. THEYRE TERRIBLE. to get better they practice against male students who played high school ball (and they get their asses handed to them by these kids). i cant wait for you to tell me ‘the womens team could probably beat the men right now’. if thats where you want to spend your money then go ahead. count me in the crowd that hates womens basketball (even if theyre still wearing the MD jersey).

  67. Hey sp md– you sound like a true maryland fan, i bet the university is proud of you. The lady terps won a nat. championship. I watched the game last night and cheered loudly for our terps. Why must you pit one against the other. Wear our colors and show your pride. IF YOU HAVE ANY.

  68. Bit of an overreaction sp md. Did mommy spank you too much when you wet your pants?

    The Terp women have been among the top teams in the country the last five years. That’s who they play against. That’s all that counts. Who cares if they can’t beat the Men’s team? The problem is the men’s team have a little problem beating the teams they need to.

    Hating women’s basketball and hating a Terps team…that’s a real man.

  69. Another great thing about going to the women’s games is that you sit right up front, and see the enthusiasm. When the women make bad plays, Brenda encourages them (no yelling and telling them what sh–s they are). A positive experience, especially for Terp fans. To me, much more fun than the men’s games. It is great to see talent and depth at every position. The Terps will be fine next year, even without their superstars Marissa and Kristi. Brenda has no distaste for recruiting.

  70. EdDC,

    I agree 100%. It’s a much more team-oriented game, there isn’t the obnoxious chest thumping over…making a basket, the players and coaches smile (well, except for Sylvia Hatchell last night). They do miss a lot of layups, though:-(

    I’m taking my older girl to see BC tomorrow and we’ll have a great time, but college sports can learn something from the women’s game. They had “girl scout” night and they had several hundred screeching 10 year olds yelling for the Terps. It’s a far cry from the dunderheads yelling to Vasquez to go back to Caracas and the knucklehead’s profanity-laced response.

  71. Amazing…Terps RPI is UP 18 spots after the blow out… They now sit 3 spots ahead of ND at 65.

  72. Taran Buie went for 21 points in his team’s overtime loss to Boys & Girls HS of NYC. Boys & Girls is very good and boasts some D1 talent.

  73. This is from the Oklahoma examiner about Gary:

    “To say that Maryland Terrapins fans are a little upset after Saturday’s smackdown at Duke would be understatement worthy of an English tailor.

    This loss may prove to be the steam that seals the deal on Gary Williams’ retirement/removal as head coach of the Terps, Williams sat on a pretty hot seat before Saturday, and this loss may be too much to overcome, even though Maryland is still a serious contender for an NCAA Tournament bid.

    This development might serve to make the Sooner Nation a bit nervous. Maryland would love to make a splash with its new coaching hire. Jeff Capel, sporting a 19-1 record and No. 5 AP ranking, along with a proven ability to recruit (a sore spot among Williams bashers) would certainly make a big splash. Capel is also African-American, which might be considered an asset in recruiting the D.C. metro area.

    Williams is pulling in $1.6 million this season, plus bonuses and incentives. Capel, meanwhile, is getting a bit more than $1 million, plus incentives (though, if OU were to come up to $1.6 million, that would be like $2.4 million in D.C.).

    Provided the Sooners finish the season as strongly as they’ve begun with, say, a Big 12 title and a nice tournament run, there’s little doubt that Capel will be sure to get a nice raise (even in this economic climate, Oklahoma is still OK). And, there’s no guarantee that Maryland could win a bidding war. OU’s endowment is bigger than Maryland’s, and the Sooners’ athletic budget is half again as big as the Terps’, suggesting OU’s big donors could handle themselves in a bidding war.

    If money is no object, then what is? Hoops hysteria, for one. Maryland draws nearly 18,000 fans for home games, compared to a bit more than 10K at Lloyd Noble Center. And, it’s a fair bet that the Terps do a better job putting ticket-holders’ butts in seats than Oklahoma does.

    Secondly, while the Big 12 is home to the reigning NCAA champion, the basketball on a year-in, year-out basis isn’t what it is in the ACC. Capel’s playing days were in the ACC (Duke). His head coaching career began at Virginia Commonwealth, where he learned the ins and outs of recruiting D.C., the Carolinas and the Mid-Atlantic.

    Finally, while men’s basketball has at times been a strong No. 2, it will never be the main event in Norman. Oklahoma is a football school, and that won’t change. Maryland’s Comcast Center, meanwhile holds more than one-third of what Byrd Stadium does, compared to the LNC, which has less than 15 percent of Owen Field’s seating capacity. Maryland may not be the basketball school, but it is a basketball school.

    None of this is to say that Capel has any intention of getting on the Green Line, or any other line for that matter. And, there’s nothing saying he’d be the guy Maryland wants. Maybe they’d do what their alum, Joe Castiglione did, and bring in a relative unknown.

    But, Maryland won’t be the only school that needs a head coach in the off-season. Or, in future off-seasons. The best way for OU to keep Capel in Norman until his Jay-Z tunes start showing up on BackSpin is to show him appreciation for a job well done. And, to show him that appreciation not just on payday, but on game day.

    Charles Ward can be reached at soonerexaminer@me.com

  74. Yeah, someone posted a link to that a few posts up…but it’s good you posted again as this thread gets longer some people may not see the original.

    I think we just need to take a deep breath and exhale. As down as I was after the game, the sun still came up yesterday and today. If the Terps beat BC tomorrow and beat Miami on Saturday they’d be 15-6 (4-3). And with both of those teams having RPI’s higher than the Terps we’d move up.

    Of course that’s “IF”.

    We’ll learn alot about this team with the way they play tomorrow night.

  75. I agree with Russ. Pissed off at the Duke performance, but a win tomorrow puts us right back in the race. For this year given this team that will suffice.
    Funny the drumbeats of Gary’s replacement reach everywhere. I was at a regional foul shooting contest yesterday for my youngest son in Northwest Virginia. There was a father there from Philadelphia area with a Villanova hat so we struck up a conversation.
    One of the first things he said was” all he hears about is how Jay Wright is going to take over for Gary and would we please leave his coach alone”?

  76. And I think it’s been removed now, but yesterday there was a blurb on Anthony Grant (VCU’s Head Coach) page on Wikipedia about how Maryland has put out feelers to him and he is very open to the idea of replacing Gary…

  77. Our guards all need a lesson on the art of the kick out pass. Bowie blows by his man and draws some help in the Duke game. He then tries to finish instead of kicking it out to Hayes or the like for the easy three.

    One reason we don’t hit a lot of threes is because we don’t get wide open looks. All of our guards need to start looking to penetrate and kick it out. VG is actually the best at doing this but he can get better too.

    I watched the VT Miami game last night and both teams scored a ton on that play. I know we haven’t shot well from the three point line but some of that is because of the type of shot we get from there.

  78. Chrs0049 don’t put much stock into that. I believe that anyone with a Wikipedia account can edit any Wikipedia page.

  79. This is going to gain more fuel if the Terps lose a few more. The ACC is the best place for basketball and talent wise DC has it all. GW has let this town and the kids pass him by. Capel would be a crazy awesome pickup and make the Duke MD game a real rivalry. GERRY I know you can’t hear me but Vaz stinks and so does GW. They are both better than they are performing. One needs to leave the other to retire, but both gone would be a better option. Landon is better than Vaz so you don’t need that distraction anymore. Move on should be the motto.

  80. I couldn’t agree more Ricksterps. We get killed by other teams constantly who execute that same fundamental play. It honestly think the most teams are too aggressive with their defensive help on penetration. But if they are going to help, make a solid pass to someone else for an open shot. Hitting those shots is another matter. But getting open looks sure does help FG%s usually.

  81. Terps ACC stats with conference rank:

    FG % – 38.4 (12)
    3-PT % – 27.3 (12)
    FT % – 72.6 (5)
    Reb. Margin – Minus 7.8 (12)

  82. In her famous 1969 book on the experience of tragedy, Elisabeth Kubler-Ross identified “the five stages of grief.” These are (1) denial, (2) anger), (3) bargaining, (4) depression, and (5) acceptance.

    I thought about these beginning about five minutes into the Duke game. (1) It can’t be so. We can’t be this lost on the court. They can’t be this hot in every facet of their game. (2) Would somebody on this team please step up and show me something? (3) If we can get this deficit under ten by halftime…. (4) Geez, it’s worse here in the second half. (5) We must lay aside our childish hopes and come to terms with the fact that we are playing 3-on-5 basketball this season and when we come up against the big boys it’s not going to be even close.

    Now, as this applies to the whole issue of the Terps program, until the Duke game I was in the bargaining phase: Get me through this year and next year I’ll take my returning perimeter guys + Milbourne + Padgett and Williams in the paint.

    But I can’t see any additional blue-chip recruits signing on for this. I’m in phase 4, depression.

    What are you in?

  83. Jeff Capel? Anthony Grant? Why am I not surprised?

  84. DBR — I know anyone can edit a Wiki page; I’m just using it as an example to show that the more our season goes down the drain, the more coaching rumors are bound to pop up. Grant, Capel, Jay Wright…

    What is an interesting exercise though is playing the “Who wouldn’t take the MD job if it opened” game. Exclude any of the ACC schools, but I don’t think there are 10 programs that are better than Maryland out there (in terms of fan base, location, recruiting options, facilities, tradition, etc.)

  85. Al V – Think before you respond to this one……If…..If……If …..”Landon Milbourne is better than GV….why isn’t he (Landon) leading in every category as GV is.?

    I said earlier you are a big disappointment as a MD fan. With your mindset, why would you even watch the Terps play? So you can do post-game protologic analysis. When you say “GV stinks” do you really mean his is a “shitty” player?

    Al, I am not trying to be funny but I couldn’t watch the terps if I felt the way you do.

    Question………are you really a terp fan? Seriously, are you? Or are you actually
    “Barf Vader” ?

    There is scant little redeeming value in your “terp talk”. Can’t you clean it up. First, please tell us in your inimitable words how Landon is better than GV first. Enlighten us. Let the sun shine in.

    Thought for the day……”A closed mouth attracts no feet”

    Go Terps

  86. All this coaching talk reminds me so much of NC State when I came down here a few years ago. When they dumped Herb they thought they had Barnes, Calapari ect to choose from. They made the same statements, big school, lots of history, being in the ACC etc. One by one all those big names said “thanks but no thanks” to the job. They ended up with Lowe who has been sub par to be nice.

    Everyone thinks all these coaches are in a hurry to come to College Park but I assure you there will be trepidation. Do one wants to get out recruited each year by Duke and UNC. You are never going to get the guys they want…ever.

    There is a long history of “young gun” coaches that just can’t hack it with the big boys. The recruiting is just so different on this level. Not to mention the coaching aspect.

    I still say Gary isn’t going anywhere in the next couple of years. But let’s say he does…that doesn’t mean it gets better. Gary didn’t forget how to coach. His recruiting over the last few years hasn’t worked out. Does he have the asst coaches to help get the recruits now? I sure hope so. I think that’s the biggest thing to have changed since our NC. We lost all those asst coaches that brought in the talent.

  87. Raleigh is not Washngton, DC. Nor is Research Triangle the Balto-Wash. corridor. Any coach in his right mind would leap at the chance to take the BB reins at College Park, what with its access to major media and blue chip talent. As for the challenge of recruiting against Duke and UNC, Lefty rose to it brilliantly year in and year out.

  88. FF,

    Lefty was a great recruiter, but when he came in Duke was subpar for his first several years at CP. Plus as I understand it, the admission requirements are much tougher for GW than they ever were for Lefty. After McMillen/Elmore/Lucas, Lefty brought in some less than stellar characters for a few years before the Buck Williams/Albert King years.

  89. I don’t remember people beating down the door when we dumped Lefty and Bob Wade.

  90. NAME GM MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
    Greivis Vasquez 19 34.2 16.3 5.7 4.6 2.8 1.7/1 1.5 0.5 1.8 .389 .911 .305 1.17
    Landon Milbourne 19 28.1 12.9 5.5 0.7 1.4 1/1.9 1.3 1.3 2.1 .521 .849 .286 1.30

    GV has 6 more minutes to stat up. LM is getting better every game.

    Bad games
    LM Gtwon
    GV Gtown, Duke, Miami, FSU and Morgan State.

    Don’t tell me he made shots late he took way too many shots he should have hit some. Do you need more evidence.

  91. This year is what it is in terms of talent, and yes, GW should be embarrassed with the team he has assembled, but the man can coach and generally gets the most out of his players in terms of effort. Anyway, I want to focus on what we have now and with that said, I feel GW needs to make some changes. First, put the ball back in GV’s hands at the point. GV is not struggling because of some issues he had with our fans, he is struggling because the rest of the ACC knows he is our best player and they are simply denying him the ball. He is the only Terp that actually creates offense for others and he needs the ball in his hands. Secondly, put DN deep on the bench where he belongs, nothing personal, but the man brings nothing to the game. I keep hearing how smart he is, how? If he was so smart, maybe he could get more than 3 rebounds a game. Third, put EH on the bench next to DN. He just does not have the ability to play at the ACC level, at least not with this team, perhaps on a team like NC with 4 other scorers, but not with these terps. He can’t shoot unless his feet are completely square and not moving, he has no quickness and completely breaks down our defense by constantly getting beaten by opposing guards and DN is certainly not going to be able to cover up his mistakes with a blocked shot.

    My five would be GV at the 1, AB at the 2, CT at the 3, LM at the 4 and JB at the 5 (he has to be able to offer more than DN, at least he can block shots and rebound) with Mosely the first off the bench. Also, Goins looked better than I imagined, certainly better than BD.

  92. Kaze…my personal clarion…if you’re at stage 4…my god has forsaken me…

    Gerry…there is no more to talk about with this team. We all know and have identified the limitations. Those limitations will not change. Even the eternal optimist like John E probably doesn’t even know the right question to ask to get a positive answer. You can continue to harangue those who don’t share your views, but I wonder to what effect.

    Escallation of commitment…the sunk cost fallacy…the more we expend into a lost cause, the more we use that expense to justify future expenses. It’s knee deep in the big muddy. Who wants it up to the neck? I am a fan and proud alum; and it kills me to see this happening. But happening it is, and wishing it away will not make it so.

    Just as many want to ask “What if we win the next few games” or “What if we had hit those shots down in FLA” or “What if those new recruits pan out”, we can just as easily ask “What if we lose the next few” or “What if the new recruits turn out like Dupree” or “What if Gary has lost it?” The data points continue accrue in one direction. Look at the span of the last 7 years. The pattern, if you choose to look at it, goes gradually down.

    The assumption has always been that Gary can as easily turn it on as he has seemingly turned it off. What if he can’t? Have Jordan Williams and James Padgett actually signed LOIs? Can we keep saying “Buie will sign if MD keeps winning, keeps playing on TV, and keeps Gary”? That’s a lot of ifs…just for one player. The last in that string of Buie “ifs” depends on the first 2…not the other way around. In recruiting, perception is reality. What is the reality now? What has it been over the last 7 years?

    Even in the darkest of years, those Bob Wade and early Gary years, MD never lost a game like that. Never. MD had the longest home non-conference winning streak in the nation…and it spanned even those early Gary years. Even coming off of probation, with no TV, no tourneys, and fewer scholarships, this never happened. Appreciate the historical significance of what has happened. It’s more than a 40 point drubbing at Dook. It’s the cumulative effect of NITs and losses to the likes of Morgan St. These things didn’t even happen in the dreaded Bob Wade days.

    How many of those kids that DBR seems to recruit more than the actual MD staff has recruited in the past will want to come to MD…for…this?

    If this isn’t bottom, what is? What is the breaking point? A losing season? Does Gary’s well run that deep?

    Champions almost never go out on top. They stay past their prime. Gary won’t ride off into that sunset because he’s a champion. He thinks he can do it again. Us against the world…we got ’em right where we want ’em…we’ll show them. But what if he doesn’t?

    Ask yourselves how much more you are willing to tolerate? What if it gets better is not the operational question. What if it gets WORSE is. That’s where we are. The descent is always worse than the ascent. Kool Aid won’t change that. Admitting that we’re at the bottom will.

  93. Lefty didn’t have to worry about admissions standards with McMillen (Rhodes Scholar) and Elmore (Harvard Law). Plus Lucas came from a solid middle class background (in Durham, I believe).

    RicksTerps: The reason no one was beating down the door to come to MD after Lefty left is because the program was on probation and in national disgrace. I don’t recall the aftermath following Bob Wade’s firing. I wouldn’t be surprised that it was another round of probation.

  94. I thought that this talk about higher admission standards was put to rest. Is it tougher than Memphis, Tennessee, West Virginia? safe to say yes, is it much tougher than UNC, Wake, Duke, Georgetown I doubt it. Where did this idea first start? If admissions is so tough why doesn’t the Fridge or Freese complain about losing out to players who can’t make it cut? If it was so tough how did Chris McCray get in??? ….uhhh enough with that excuse.

  95. Kaze: I just read Wheels’ post–“Kaze…my personal clarion…if you’re at stage 4…my god has forsaken me…”

    I hope this is not what it implies. Few of us on this blog know you personally–at least, I don’t. But I think I speak for everyone in saying how much we enjoy your voice, even when we disagree.

    Hope to hear more from you soon.

  96. Frust. Fan: I don’t believe that there was any probation after Lefty was pushed out. There was a national disgrace for sure. Wade left in personal disgrace due to probation and near death penalty, primarily because of recruiting violations with Rudy Archer.

    Terps96: The standards are higher due to self imposition after the Bias crisis. Public schools have to be more accountable in their admissions policies. Private schools (Duke, Georgetown, Wake, Memphis) don’t. You need to look only at the past year examples to see this. Maze was on academic hold at Maryland and gets right into Tennessee (public school). Jennings de-committed when it was pretty clear he wouldn’t get in, then waltzes in to Louisville (private school). Shane Clark is playing solid minutes at Villanova because one of his high school math credits wouldn’t transfer to UM. ‘Nova had no problem with it.
    Fridge does complain but it’s a little different when your recruiting class is +20 persons per year. Women are less of an issue because they are traditionally better student athletes than the men.
    I agree it shouldn’t be an excuse but it is frustrating when kids want to go here but say F*ck it when it looks to be harder to qualify then most other schools. Since they have other choices and probably like them somewhat equally, then why not take the path of less resistance.

  97. HarryFish – Of the guys you named Jennings is the only one who would be a marked improvement for the team, and that is based on potential more than actual results this year, though he has played better of late and he did play pretty well against Cuse this past weekend. Clark? Eh doubt he would be more helpful then Neal? Maze? Guess he is a more solid ball handler than what we have, but all that much better than Bowie? Plus only two yrs of eligibility, is that worth it?

    My points are:
    1) As far as I know MD hasn’t missed out recently on any top 10 or 20 recruits because of academics standards.
    2) GW has always had to deal with these standards, and he won consistently for over 10 years with them. So why all of the sudden are they now a problem?

  98. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2009/01/26/DI2009012600966.html

    Good chat about this exact subject. Seems like most people are stuck on the recruiting front. That is the only prerequisite for a new coach. Let’s get Hewitt from GT, he gets great recruits and then underachieves each year :)

  99. Hey everyone, I heard saw this in another forum, looks like some pretty good information based on what we are all talking about.

    Very interesting comment by Loyola coach Jimmy Patsos on MASN the other day… Asked why Terps have struggled last several years and he said “recruiting”.. Three things, GW works as hard as anyone on the trail but the assistants lay ground work and GW has had a lot of turnover since NC> himself (Loyola) , Billy Hahn (Lasalle), Dave Dickerson (Tulane), Mike Lonergan (Vermont), Rob Moxley (Charlotte), Matt Kovarik (Loyola)… Next JP says Terps had three recruits denied admissions last year one is now playing in the Big East and an other is playing in the Southeastern conference. The third was the second leading scorer in Virginia history.. Lastly, GW doesn’t cheat! A recruit was quoted asking GW “why didn’t you call me last month Coach?” GW answered.. “It was quite period” Against NCAA rules.. The impliation was that it didn’t stop other Coachesfrom calling i.e. Kelvin Sampson and Bill Self… Take it how you want it.. Comming from a reliable source!

  100. During Lefty’s years there was something called “General Studies” that it seemed almost every Terp student-athlete majored in. After Bias died and the school’s investigation revealed that many student-athletes were not going to class and/or passing some changes were made. What exactly I couldn’t tell you. Just typing this bums me out. I was on campus taking a summer class the morning the Bias news broke and I was in Cole for the press conference where Lefty cried. I try to block some of the events of that time period out because it’s so sad and so painful.

  101. from the Terrapins Inside – Washington Post…good for Gary with this

    Williams Talks About Losing Assistants, Recruits
    During today’s chat with local reporters, Gary Williams was asked whether he thought losing talented assistant coaches who were skilled recruiters, such as Billy Hahn, Dave Dickerson and Jimmy Patsos, has hurt his program in regards to recruiting in recent seasons.

    For those of you who wonder whether the athletic department plays — or has played — a role in Maryland basketball’s recent recruiting struggles, I imagine you’ll find Williams’s response quite interesting.

    “Well, we’ve signed two players that will be in the top 50 in the country for next year, and I’m looking forward for those guys coming in here,” Williams said, referring to Maryland’s 2009 recruiting class of Jordan Williams and James Padgett. “We’ve had, um, people that were here for different lengths of time. The kid, (Shane) Clark, up at Villanova was turned down for admission here at Maryland. The guy starting at South Florida, (Gus) Gilchrist, was here for a year. He’d be playing now. You know, Tyree Evans would be playing now. And they’re all qualified to play at other schools. So, that’s part of it. You know, in basketball one player’s a lot. It’s not like in football where you’ve got 25 (recruits) every year. So we’ve been through that.

    “I was very fortunate to have Dave Dickerson, Billy Hahn and Jimmy Patsos for the length of time that I did. I always felt because I was an assistant coach for nine years, part of my job as a head coach is to prepare guys for head coaching positions that are my assistants. You know, Mike Lonergan is doing a great job at Vermont. Jimmy’s up at Loyola. He’s really changed that program. Dave Dickerson’s in a very difficult situation at Tulane, because of the hurricane (Katrina). All of those guys have benefitted from being here and become head coaches. So that’s one of those things that happened. It’s not like they left or I got rid of them. It’s just that we did well enough where they could get head coaching positions. Whether it’s Randy Ayers or Ed Tapscott — people like that, they’ve been my assistants. You know, I must be doing something right if people on the outside think that (Maryland assistants) are ready to be head coaches.”

    Then Williams was asked whether losing players such as Gilchrist and Evans in the same offseason was an unusual development.

    “Yeah, and it wasn’t my fault that they’re not here,” Williams said. “You know, that was somebody else’s call.”

    I’m not going to put words in Williams’s mouth, so I’ll let you decide to whom he was referring.

    Your thoughts on his comments?

    By Steve Yanda | January 26, 2009; 5:13 PM ET | Category: Men’s basketball
    Previous: No Apologies From GW |

  102. Hewitt gets one-and-dones, so performance has been lacking when players leave behind holes in the program.

  103. Gilchrist was admitted to MD…hence his year at MD…so no academic issues there.

    Evans didn’t get past the MD faculty because he seemed more like Allen Iverson than Bambale Osby.

    Gary can blame Yow all he wants. What about all of the lost recruits from the Balt-DC area that he couldn’t land between 2002-2008?

    Jennings punked us…Maze couldn’t qualify coming out of a JC…Evans had legal issues in his past…and Gilchrist punked us, too. Gary wants to blame this on Yow? Clark was, what, a 3 star recruit? So was Nik Caner-Medley. Why couldn’t Gary land Scottie Reynolds out of Herdon?

    Funny…can he blame Durant, Gay, Freeman, Wright, Reynolds, Hibbert, Lawson…who else from within a 30 mile radius of College Park am I missing here…not signing at MD because of Yow and MD’s “high” admissions standards? DeMatha used to be MD’s junior varsity team. After Garrison, we get no one. Gonzaga HS finished 34-1 last year, and MD gets no one from that team. Yeah, it’s Yow’s fault that he couldn’t land a single blue chip…not a single one…because of Debbie Yow and those oh-so-famously difficult MD admission requirements. How can any of you actually buy this? It’s beyond garbage. It’s just weak.

    It’s one thing to say that local kids want to get away, but come on…is GTown really getting away? MD signs a bunch of kids in football that want to stay local, and MD football hasn’t won a NCAA championship since 1953. You’d think that out of the littany of blue chippers coming out DC-Balt, we’d get more than just Mosely. Rudy Gay out of Spalding goes to UConn and we get a retarded 7 footer from Spalding. Great swap on that one.

    If Gary is going to cry to the media and play the passive-aggressive “I can’t say who but I’m just saying” crap, he’ll be outta of CP much sooner than you might think.

    By the way, my Kaze “stage 4 comment” had to do with his post on stages of grieving not on cancer. I would certainly never want any illness to befall any Soupers.

  104. Hindsight is always 20-20 but now that I look back, the recruiting class of 2004 is the one that boggles my mind. These kids committed during the 2003-04 season while the NC was still fresh in everyone’s mind and we were coming off another NCAA appearance.

    We got: James Gist (a top 100 4-star player), Jared Gaither and JuCo player Sterling Ledbetter. All had local ties but huh?

  105. Wheels – No need to call Bowers retarded. The guy did improve a little bit his 4 years and become serviceable his senior year. But I agree for the most part with you.

    I can’t take this garbage about admissions costing recruits, it’s not like MD has Ivy league like requirements. As I said before Gary has lived with the same standards during his entire tenure and he was highly successful before. If he blamed the recruiting woes mostly on losing his assistants I can accept that because you need relationships with high school and AAU coaches, and if you lose the guys that forge the relationships then it is much harder to recruit and it takes time to build up relationships, his only fault then would be for making his assistants do so much of the grunt work. And by all accounts of his recent recruiting activity it seems that he has finally gotten this.

    The Wa Post guys bring up a good question though, what do people prefer a greater recruiter or a great coach? Obviously getting both in one coach is the best choice but how many coaches fall in that category? For a school like MD I would say great coach, but their recruiting ability has to be at least average (which seemed like the 90s Gary). If we were talking about UNC you can live with a suspect recruiter because the program basically recruits itself, but you need a great coach to handle all the egos and such (think the failure of Matt Doherty).

  106. I wonder how different Ledbetter’s career here would’ve been if he didn’t get in that car accident right before his junior year. Seemed like he spent his whole Maryland career trying to get himself back on track

  107. Lots of chatter about GW, coaching vs recruiting vs admissions et all.

    JMS (above) did a decent job of focusing on what GW is doing with a so-so crop of recruits.

    I also agree with JMS that we would improve with a starting 5 of GV @PG, AB, LM. CT and Jerome Burney if he’s healthy. We got nothing to lose.

    The situation we’re in now is more expectations than performance. We all expected better results and we almost got it save the FSU & Miami games. We EXPECTED TO WIN those games……but we didn’t. IF, IF IF we had won them I wonder how much discussion/posting above would have been eliminated. Many of you would have said, “WOW we are 4-1….yeah the Dook loss was bad but look where we are”.

    Six points would have characterized our ACC play and not a 41 point loss to Puke.
    I expect us to do better against BC and Miami and when Puke comes to COMCAST
    I got to believe, that if this team has any pride, the results are going to be dramatically different.

    AL V – good job of pulling together the stats on GV vs Landon. Not certain what they tell but I, like many of the Soupers, we see GV as our MVP. Without him, the team goes into a free-fall. He has made a difference this year and will continue to be the remainder of the year whether you like it or not.

    Ricksterps – real good observation about Hewitt at GT…..”gets real good recruits but underachieves”.

    I’ll take GW’s so-so recruits, that perhaps over achieve vs the latter.

    Time to shake up the starting 5 and JMS hit it.

    PS: Has anyone really responded ot Jeremy’s questions opening this thread?

    1. Is it better to be a fan or should we find another hobby?
    2.Is this the absolute low point. Can Can it get any worse than this?

    How about it.
    too Terps.

  108. TERP 96 – Sometimes a little thing like a recruit not qualifying can be a big thing, not the excuse garbage your purport it to be. Do you think with our guards shooting 20% for the year that Maze and Evans may have helped? Could Shane Clark have spelled Milbourne, played decent forward defense and reduced some of Neals minutes? T. Jennings could have been one big man presence on a team that has none. These are real examples of players who would have been playing here this year. I am not including Gus Gilchrest which also screwed us this year.
    Not an excuse for the teams poor Duke performance but these players would likely have made a difference this year in other losses.
    Regardless, Gary is a Hall of Fame coach so he navigates these waters the best he can. These are the cards he was dealt with so he needs make the most of it and has to be responsible for results.

  109. At 6-10/211 Shane Walker may have been able to spell Milbourne this season. Kid is athletic.

    Shane Clark, on the other hand, is in his senior year at Villanova and has yet to average 8 points & 5 rebounds for a season. I’m long over that kid. Plus he’s from Philly, originally committed to ‘Nova…decommitted then comitted to the Terps but there was some kind of transcript issue that kept him from getting into UMD. So he decommits and re-commits to ‘Nova. And viola the transcript issue is resolved.

    I’ll never stop being a fan.
    This is not the absolute low point, nobody has died, we’re not going to finish 8-17.

  110. Wheels, I saw Kaze’s Kuebler-Ross “stage 4” grieving comment after I posted that dumb comment while hurrying off to class. One of my dumber posts, and I’ve made many. Time to sign off for the duration

  111. I will be at the game tomorrow night (if the 2″ of snow storm doesn’t interfere LOL) and I for one am hoping to see an invigorated TERPS team. I hope the loss burns in each of their bellies and they decide here and now to turn it on like theres no tomorrow, and oh yes BD gets 8 points, 5 boards and a real dunk (hey I can dream can’t I).

    Go TERPS – destroy BC

  112. Two inches of snow? I’d take that. We’re expecting 7-10 inches Tues/Wed in Albany. And that’s on top of what is already on the ground. Tell ’em NYMets.

    Meanwhile…some Terp fans are having fun with Anthony Grant’s Wikipedia page. I cut and pasted the following:

    Grant led VCU to a 79-77 upset of 6th seeded Duke to reach the 2nd round of the 2007 NCAA Tournament next coach of md.[2]

  113. Frustrated – I don’t have any bodily illnesses but it sure feels like I’m dyin’ here. Thanks for the kind words and you’ve yet to make any dumb comments I can remember.

    Wheels – “I am a fan and proud alum; and it kills me to see this happening. But happening it is, and wishing it away will not make it so.” – Bingo. You’re at stage 5, buddy.

    Wheels again – “If Gary is going to cry to the media and play the passive-aggressive “I can’t say who but I’m just saying” crap, he’ll be outta of CP much sooner than you might think.” True, true, true. She’ll buy him out if he keeps that up.

    And here’s a question. Would Will Bowers start on this team? The frightening thing is that you’ve got to think about it before answering.

  114. Ok Wheels, the “eternal optimist JohnE” has a question for everyone; how do we get beyond Kaze’s Stage 4 (depression) into Stage 5 (acceptance)? I’ll start by stating the most optimistic thing I can think of right now, there’s only one way out this hellish mess and that’s up; unless of course the Terps just simply quit on us. I don’t think that is in this program’s DNA. UMd and GW are a lot of things, but quitters is not one of them.

    So, what do we have here? A team with painfully obvious limitations. Is there a way to make lemonade out of this lemon of a situation ? I don’t think all is necessarily lost. I do agree we’re staring into a proverbial abyss if they don’t get their play straightened out ASAP. I still think it is too early to totally give up on the season, unless of course the Terps choose to do so. Maybe they’ll pull there head out of their collective ass and surprise us in the next couple of games.

    How about GW shaking the line-up up a bit? Gerry threw out the following suggestion: I also agree with JMS that we would improve with a starting 5 of GV @PG, AB, LM. CT and Jerome Burney if he’s healthy. Who would you put out on the floor if you were GW and why?

  115. Gerry has a good point. How would we all feel if they had won at Miami and Florida St.? I know the what if’s can get old. But would the chatter be this bad? Maybe. It’s not the first time we’ve had discussions on Gary’s future. And I understand those discussions are relevant.

    But I want to pose another question. How would everyone be reacting if they lost to Duke by close to 30 like they did Georgetown? We were angry and embarrassed after that but the reaction wasn’t like this. All I’m saying is at some point, a spanking is a spanking. It’s hard to measure the degree of said spanking after a certain point.

    In many ways this loss was one of those games where everything goes wrong for one team and everything goes right for the other. Obviously, Duke played very well and crushed us. But it was also one of those snowball effect games where one bad thing just led to another. I think MD played a horrible game more than Duke played an outstanding one if that makes sense. In other words. I don’t think MD loses by 41 when they play Duke at Comcast in a few weeks.

  116. Kids, let the good Dr. prescribe you a placebo. There is no Stage 5 Acceptance. Not now. Not until it is mathematically impossible for us make the feild of 65. Not until the fat lady punches us in the scroti one more time too bring us back to falsetto.

    Until that point, there is always hope that we shall overcome. Kumbaya my Lord. We’ll be in front of that freaking tube every game in warpaint and full dress hoping for the miracle, even if we try to pretend we don’t care. And if you’re reading this, you care.

    6 years we’ve been wating for the miracle, so a little cynicysm will be forgiven, but it’s delusion to think any of us will accept failure till it’s tanned in our hides by the hot iron. And when they come at us with it, you know I’m throwing one last punch. Some fucker’s lossing a toof.

    There’s always hope, until there is none. So, basically, we’re screwed until our exit from the ACC Tourney. Deal with it.

    By all means and measures, we should expect to lose to Carolina by 67 points. But the question is…. “is it possible for us to win?” And the answer is ….. ” Shit yes it’s possible yooohoooo let’s go Terps yeahhhhh pour me a beer you filthy bitches Bow chicka bow wow!

    Oh. the agony.

  117. Dr Faison. Brilliant!

  118. Terps96…sorry to call Bowers that…I’d kill to have him in MD’s lineup. He’d make that 7’1″ Treepio from Dook look like the willow that he is.

    FF…no worries…it’s tough to read all of my blathering.

    Soupers…I have been doing some data gathering related to Terp recruiting. It’d be a long post, but you all might find it interesting. I know I have. It’s really long though…are people cool with that?

  119. For those who want Garyland gone, I say that is a really bad idea. Let me explain why.

    Gary’s only fault has been getting lazy/unlucky in recruiting after the NC. We are paying for it dearly now. I think Gary only realized this himself last year. That’s why the semi-desparate moves for Gilchrist, Maze, Evans, Goins, etc. But recruting troubles can be fixed rather easily. This is basketball, not football. 1-2 players make the difference between Sweet Sixteen and NIT. This problem is correctable. The next Joe Smith is coming any minute.

    Meanwhile, Gary is a tremendous, tremendous in-season coach. He has even gotten better as a coach the last few years. Gary has always been fabulous at teaching in practice and game preparatoin. This is his best asset. Our teams are prepared to play. But the last few years his in-game management has improved. His substitution patterns are usually spot-on. His demeanor has changed on the sidelines. He doesn’t rant and rave for 40 minutes any more. I used to think in the 90’s that Gary’s antics made the team more nervous down the stretch of close games. It seemed like our teams usually won comfortable or lost a close one. That’s not the case these days. We win our share of close ones.

    Top players will win games no matter who the coach is. But a great coach can win more often with top players. How many NBA players has Kansas produced in the last 15 years? They have a player on half the teams in the NBA. How many national championships do they have? One, just like us.

    The problem with letting Gary go is this. Who will replace him? How many coaches in the entire country are even at his level? Maybe just a handful and those guys have lifetime jobs already. Dookie K has lost to a lower seed the the NCAA’s 4 years running. Nobody is calling for his job. If Gary is let go, we will deeply regret it.

  120. One thing I’m thinking about guys. Maybe we should ditch the flex this season and go with the standard motion offense. The flex requires versatile big men and a 2/3 who can curl into the open spots for spot-ups. This team has no Nicolas-type or Holden type. I mean the only player exceeding expectations this season is Neal. He’s a senior, he knows the flex and he’s finding those open spot-ups in the flex for post players a la Holden and Morris.

    If we go with the motion, it accentuates our best players who are all perimeter players. We don’t have to have Braxton post-up with one hand up when we know he’s not gonna get the ball anyway. It’s like letting 1-2 guys on the opposing team rest on defense then pound us on the offensive boards with their saved-up energy.

    I’m not talking anything fancy, I’m talking the standard Bobby Knight motion offense. Pass, screen, cut-away. This offense will create shots for the guys that should be shooting. The flex is leading to too many clumsy Greveis drives to the lane with 5 on the clock. Pass, screen, cut-away, Landon curls for a 12-footer. Eric for the spot-up 3. What do you think?

  121. Go for it Wheels. I’m sure it won’t be a love note to Gary but it will make for some interesting reading.

    Do we see Rice and Bowie guarding each other? That may be fun to watch.

  122. 4 reasons to fire Gary

    Marquette
    Xavier
    Butler
    Saint Mary’s

    Oh yeah before you discount Saint Marys they beat Morgan State.

    4 Small time university’s with no NC(except Marquette 1977) can recruit better and out coach GW.

    All 4 coaches younger and hungrier and better recruiters. I would take a fall of year to build it back up. This struggling every year to get the tourney for the last 5 years sucks.

    I mean aren’t we better than these schools on paper to get recruits.

    Why are banking on two 3 start kids. Not that they won’t be good but they are not 5 star kids who should be able to start. These are project kids. When will it get better? When we get a new young hungry coach who has to win to keep his job instead of holding on to history. Montana left, Bradshaw left, Marino left, and they were okay. Unitas stayed too long and people remember that. GW should walk away since the game has passed him by.

  123. This post will be long, as I have listed the All-Metro basketball teams from both the Washington Post and the Baltimore Sun since MD’s 2001 Final Four team. Two caveats here. First, the WaPo seems better at listing where players signed LOIs, but I can’t account for all of these players in terms of if or where they played college ball. I have only noted players who signed at higher profile schools. Second, the Baltimore Sun for some reason does not have their 2003 All-Metro team posted in their archives.

    2001-2002
    Jermaine Thomas (WaPo POY)
    Calvin Cage
    Wade Dunston
    Todd Galloway (signed at FSU)
    Travis Garrison (signed at MD)
    Louis Hinnant
    Trey Kelley
    Chris McCray (signed at MD)
    Ahmad Smith
    Kevin Steenberge
    Tyler Smith (Sun POY)
    Josh Boone (signed at UConn)
    Gerald Brown
    Richard Dorsey
    JJ Outlaw (signed football scholarship at Villanova)
    Laronja Owens
    Levi Stukes
    James Taylor
    Landy Thomson

    2002-2003
    Linas Kleiza (WaPo POY signed at Missouri)
    Folarin Campbell
    T.J. Carter
    Jerome Habel
    Trevan Jackson
    Trey Kelley (signed at South Carolina)
    Ricky Lucas (signed at GW)
    Lorenzo Miles
    Sheray Thomas (signed at Kentucky)
    Sam Young

    2003-2004
    Rudy Gay (WaPo and SUN POY signed at UConn)
    Dwayne Anderson (signed at Villanova)
    Folarin Campbell (signed at George Mason)
    Jason Flagler
    Jeff Green (signed at Georgetown)
    Randy Hampton
    Chris Howard
    Abdulai Jalloh (signed at St. Joseph’s)
    Manny Quezada (signed at Rutgers)
    Sam Young
    Will Thomas (signed at George Mason)
    Jermaine Bolden
    Paris Carter
    Lance Fuller
    Mitch Guest
    Darnell Harris
    Nathan Irby
    Jamal Smith
    Leon Williams

    2004-2005
    Dante Cunningham (WaPo POY signed at Villanova)
    Michael Beasley (signed at Kansas State)
    Ray Brewer
    Mamadi Diane (signed at UVA)
    Uche Echefu (signed at FSU)
    Marcus Ginyard (signed at UNC)
    Eric Hayes
    David Neal (signed at MD)
    Scottie Reynolds
    Jessie Sapp (signed at Georgetown)
    Chris Wright
    DaJuan Summers (Sun POY)
    Jamal Barney
    Louis Birdsong
    Velmar Coleman
    Sean Mosely
    Craig Singleterry
    Rodney Spruill
    Domonic Venable
    Phil Vornadore

    2005-2006
    Kevin Durant (WaPo POY signed at Texas)
    Austin Freeman
    Scottie Reynolds (signed first at OU then to Villanova)
    Michael Gruner
    Eric Hayes (signed at MD)
    Nigel Munson (signed at VT)
    Bobby Shannon
    Danny Sumner
    Greivis Vasquez (signed at MD)
    Chris Wright
    Louis Birdsong (Sun POY signed at George Mason)
    Jamal Barney (signed at Providence)
    Malcolm Delaney
    Dejuan Goodwin
    Donte Green
    Johnny Higgins
    Sean Mosely
    Walter Sanders
    Rodney Spruill
    DaJuan Summers (signed at Georgetown)

    2006-2007
    Austin Freeman (WaPo POY signed at Georgetown)
    Jason Clark
    Cameron Long (signed at George Mason)
    Adrian Bowie (signed at MD)
    Chris Wright (signed at Georgetown)
    Deontay Twyman
    Justin Flowers (signed at WVU)
    Vlad Moldoveanu (signed at George Mason)
    Darnell Dodson (signed at Pitt)
    Kwame Morgan
    Malcolm Delaney (Sun POY signed at VT)
    Tommy Brenton
    Devin Brown
    Darrell Bryant
    Braxton Dupree (signed at MD)
    Donte Green (signed at Syracuse)
    Dino Gregory (signed at MD)
    Sean Mosely
    Henry Sims
    Omar Strong

    2007-2008
    Jason Clark (WaPo POY signed at Georgetown)
    Austin Cooley
    Erik Green
    Will Alston
    Rodney McGruder (signed at Kansas State)
    Max Kenyi (signed at Harvard)
    Maurice Sutton
    Anthony Winbush
    Terrell Vinson
    Sean Thomas
    Sean Mosely (Sun POY signed at MD)
    Antoine Allen
    C.J Fair
    Troy Franklin
    Brandon Greene
    Isaiah Philmore
    Henry Sims (signed at Georgetown)
    Roscoe Smith
    Omar Strong
    Tione Womack

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Not counting players who earned All-Metro in multiple years (for example, Sean Mosely earned All-Metro four consecutive years), there are about 120 players on this list (again, I am missing All-Mets from Bmore in 2003, too). I’m sure this is debatable, but it seems to me that while Baltimore might produce a “star”, the DC area seems deeper across the board. I’d say, looking at this data, that Gary would get more bang for his buck in DC than Baltimore. Again, debatable and shouldn’t exclude him from doing both.

    What do can we see from this list?. First, Gary signed 9 players from this list including 1 Player of the Year (Sean Mosely). Georgetown signed 7 players from the list including 3 POYs. George Mason signed 5 from the list including 1 POY (Louis Birdsong). UConn and Villanova have also signed a couple of players. Gary does seem to pull more than his share of Balt-DC area, but he does not seem to get many POYs.

    Second, Georgetown’s run up in recruiting, not surprisingly, occurred after JT3 came back to DC. All of their POY recruits signed after he came, and it looks like players will sign there even if GTown has already recruited players at the same position (they signed a ton of guards all at the same time). It’s not like GTown runs a very flashy or pro-ready offense. They run the Princeton offense and emphasize tight defense. It can’t be the style of play that draws these kids.

    Third, aside from Georgetown, Villanova has made huge inroads to the area. This looks like it started prior to Jay Wright coming from Hofstra. UNC has also drawn a lot of talent out of Bishop O’Connell. The WCAC is the premier HS conference in the area (sorry BCL), and MD has landed Travis Garrison (DeMatha) and David Neal (O’Connell) from 2002 until now. This can’t be because of MD admission requirements. The HS in that conference are some of the best academic HS in the region if not country.

    So, what conclusions to draw. Gary clearly recruits the area pretty well (although it looks like in spurts…he seems to have a feast/famine cycle going with scholarships available…makes for tough long term planning). He’s not landing many POYs. Either he’s very unlucky that the local players he recruits end up being duds at MD or there’s something about the system at MD that doesn’t allow the players to flourish.

  124. Eddie, you touch on something rarely spoken of, and my #2 problem with Gary since the 90’s. He’s about as versatile as a wet stump. He’s not changing. He has the ability to adapt and overcome like January has the ability to be August.

    He’ll put shooting guards at point, small forwards at center and starters on the bench before he’ll change his system. He changes players to match the system, not vice versa. He’s been doing it since ’03. Garrison was never a 4 man…shoot… how many years since the NC has a shooting guard been our primary point…at least 3.

    Gary, God love him, is a one trick pony. Even if he believed in it, he doesn’t not know how to change his system. If he did, it would already be done, because the flex ain’t astrophysics….it requires low block scoring…which we don’t have.

    A cup of tea requires a cup. Without it, you have a puddle.

  125. First off. I am a huge Gary fan. I (all Maryland fans) should applaud him for everything he has done for our program. That being said I would not be unhappy to see us go in a new direction. I like the idea of a hungier young coach. But I would absolutely hate to see him fired. He doesn’t not deserve that. I hope it is done with dignity, a passing of the torch type thing. Regardless eventually we will move on to a new coach. It would be great to see him retire after a successful season. Not sure how soon that will be though. Who knows? Maybe the rest of this year could be his shining moment. If he gets this team into the tourney, no one could argue with the coaching that would’ve been done. I doubt it though.

  126. Back to reality, Gary Williams, future Hall of Fame coach will be leading the Terps tonight against BC. I am looking for a solid victory with little drama and will be there cheering them on from Section 101.
    The crowd may be spotty due to the blizzard that has hit us. Blizzard in Washington means about 2 inches of accumulation cancels schools, shuts down non-essential government (isn’t that an oxymoron?), has 30,000 trucks spraying salt on dry roads and stores empty of bread, milk and eggs.
    Never the less, the bleeding stops tonight!

  127. Tonight will tell A LOT about the rest of the season. We just took a 40-point drubbing. That game could’ve killed our psyche altogether and we will come out flat against BC. If that happens, we will win 5 or less conference games and barely make the NIT. OR, we can come out really angry and thump BC. Who knows?

  128. harryfish, I hope you are right. I think we are fairly even matched with BC. And Rice scares me, like McClinton scared me. A nice 30-point win would do wonders.

  129. yes a 30 pt win would do wonders, however, a solid 7 -10 pt V is what I hope and can see happening.

  130. ALV, if you’re trying to say those schools have better teams than Maryland right now, you’d be absolutely right. But I hope you don’t mean they have better talent. Marquette is a Big East school with a storied history. Their pedigree is just as good as Maryland. Xavier to a lesser degree is the same deal. I’ll give you those two schools.

    But if you don’t think Maryland would be at the top of the Horizon League or the West Coast Conference (except Gonzaga) you are being foolish. St Mary’s has a good team this year because they took some international transfers from Australia. They have a team laden with upperclassmen and 23, 24 year-old Aussies to boot. Maryland, as down as we are this year, on paper has better talent than Butler, St Mary’s or even Xavier. Any mid-major would KILL for the talent we have this year as funny as that sounds. I am a basketball junkie. I watch games between Eastern Washington and Weber State. I have seen St Mary’s play 6 games this season. I watch 10-15 mid-major games alone per week. In a given game a St Mary’s can beat Maryland or even a Duke. But if we played in the Horizon League, we’d dominate.

  131. I agree with Eddie for the most part. NCAA bids are given on a reward bases. It should be the most qualified teams but it isn’t. You stick a George Mason in the ACC and they would get smoked. Can they rise up and beat an ACC team once a year? Sure. Can they hang with ACC teams in a three month grind? No way.

  132. I always thought ‘non-essential government employees’ meant the US Congress :)

    Tonight’s honorary captain is Larry Gibson. He is wheel chair bound so Lefty will be pushing him out onto the court.

  133. What happened to Gibson?

  134. I believe he was in a bad car accident and has had difficulty with his health over the years.

  135. Okay, so we’ve got a Jekyll and Hyde team that can beat Michigan State and Michigan…yet lose to Morgan State and put up the debacle that was last Saturday. Juan Dixon and Steve Blake aren’t walking through that door. Even Sleepy Randall and James Gist aren’t talking through that door. But I think we can take BC tonight if the Terps play inspired defense. Tonight may be the time to full court press from the opening tip off. In doing some minor research I’ve found that in games against Providence and Georgia Tech, BC squandered double digit leads due to an inability to break full court pressure. Granted BC found a way to win both of those games, but the point is that they have struggled this season against full court pressure.

    A win tonight would be sweet. BC has a strength of schedule and a RPI around 58…this would be a nice win and the Terps need as many wins as they can get.

    I know the weather (2 inches of snow?) may affect attendance, but I hope the crowd at the game is loud…and I mean Duke/UNC game loud.

    GO TERPS!

    JSK will not be in uniform tonight.

  136. Very nice research Wheels. Looking at that list of names the thing that comes to mind is not all “met” players are created equal. Those guys run the gambit from 5 star to 2 star. That of course brings up the issue of the whole star rating system. Some guys go up and down depending on who is recruiting them. If Duke or UNC enter the picture, all the sudden these guys become 4 or 5 star guys.

    Ultimately, recruiting is the responsibility of the head coach. Having said that, most successful programs have asst coaches that are networked into the AAU coaching circuit. Supposedly our asst coaching have started to create some nice relationships that will help bring in some talent. We aren’t going to hang with Duke and the boys on the top guys. Our shot is how we did it before and how Clemson etc are doing it now. We get the right 3 and 4 star guys.

    Thanks again Wheels, some nice stuff there for sure.

  137. Jsk hasn been ruled ineligible. DBR any idea why? The post is reporting this in one of their blogs.


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