Bounce Back?… BC Thread

After 3 days of reflection, embarrassment, calls for Gary Williams’ head, and analysis of the current players, the Terps return to the court tonight in another must win game. 

I believe we’ll find out in the first 5 minutes whether this team has what it takes to rebound from the crushing loss on Saturday.  However, it’ll take some adversity to determine the true state of this team.  Can they come back from a bad few minutes?  Can they withstand a BC run?  Can they actually hit a shot?

It’s time to find out.



  1. Meh…Caps-Bruins is what I’m watching. I’ll switch over during commercials and intermission.

  2. BREAKING NEWS: SportsNite just announced that JSK is academically ineligible. It is under appeal, but he cannot play, just practice.

  3. I am loving Milbourne & Mosley right now…God, please let us keep the lead for 40 minutes. Amen

  4. Great start so far. They are playing tough, playing like a team, sharing the ball and hitting shots! Milbourne, Mosley and Bowie have been very impressive. Nobody is out of control yet. They just need to be consistent!

  5. Where is everybody…Iwe are still bummed about Saturday, but c’mon guys…let’s chat this bitch up

  6. Al Skinner looks like a walrus.

  7. Wow, we’re so low on the totem pole we can’t even get ESPN2 in HD???

    Plenty of time to blow a double-digit lead!

    And what is this comment stuff at the top of the screen?

    Anyway, sure would be nice to win this game. Renew my faith that this team can succeed in winnable games.

  8. now take advantage with Rice in early foul trouble

  9. Rice has 3 fouls with a LOT of time to go…but if they’d take the darn lid off the basket, he’d still have 2…

  10. Let’s see if MD fucks this one up too…with Rice in foul trouble…i hope they don’t. Go Terps.

  11. Team playing well. It would be fitting for Rice to foul out after last years game at BC.

  12. I like that ball fake by Mosley…he is something.

  13. We are being aggressive, but smart aggression. Defense is strong though I’d still like to defend the 3 better. Our quickness is giving them problems, so we need to continue to use it.

  14. We’ve scored just 4 less points than all of Saturday’s game in the first half. I don’t like BC’s long range shooting success, but if the boys play with the same intensity in the second half, we shouldn’t have to worry. Ha! Did I just write that!?

  15. I am kind of worried. I won’t lie. We have to hope their 3s don’t drop…otherwise, it will be a wrap. We’ll be 2-4 in the ACC come 9.30pm ET.

  16. i like what im seeing from landon so far

  17. We STILL give up too many easy 3’s to our opponents. Mosely seems to be be getting comfortable and looking to score. Dino needs to get where Mosely has arrived. Dino has some moves and can put the rock in the bucket underneath. Hayes is beginning to become a “mystery”. He’s better than he was last year, He can play off the ball and create his own shot a bit better……but he’s not hitting it. EH and GV both had a couple of floaters in the middle. Need more of that.

    This is for AL V – You’re right…..Landon is gettng better…..but GV is still the man….for now.

    Did you notice we (that’s MD) had 20 + points in the paint vs 8 for BC?

    Let’s hope the same Terp team comes out in the 2nd half.

    Chi-Terp- The chat may be down a bit because we are all probably intently watching the game……some to see how well the Terps bounce back and others to collect data to pounce on GW, GV, AB, the team, the fans and anything else that looks like a Terp.

    Go Terps.

  18. Hey Gregg, don’t know if you have two TVs going, but Ovie just got hurt…

  19. I’ve got 6 TV’s going, but missed the Ovie. Was it bad?

  20. Looked really bad. He was hooked by Chara, lost his balance, crashed shoulder and head first into the boards. Lay on the ice for a while…but left under his own power. Threw his helmet down on the way to the locker room. Don’t know if that’s because he knows he’s really hurt, or not. But I’m not feeling too confident in his return…

  21. Ouch for Ovie. Saw the replay. Hopefully he’s ok. Now back to hoops!

  22. Yup. 2nd intermission…back to the Terps…and another BC 3…

    I’d like to see both Boston teams lose tonight!

  23. Wow, that was really weak post defense by Milbourne…really weak.

  24. Lead down to 6. Like clockwork we let them back in. Dino Gregory is playing really well.

  25. Monster block by Dino, but we cannot buy a bucket now.

  26. Ok folks. Here’s that adversity. They need to weather the storm and get that double digit lead back. That’s how this team will improve and learn how to win and how to finish. It’s okay that BC is coming back, we just need to hit them right back.

  27. Just when I was begging see big things from Landon he takes a stuped 3 ‘J rather than bank or go to hole and draw a foul. Of courese he missed .

  28. Is this the worst shooting MD team in the last 16 years?

  29. It’s all confidence with this squad. Just look at the first half. When one guy gets hot, they all start hitting shots. They need to get the ball back in the hands of MIlbourne.

  30. Ovie’s back on the bench!

    Go Terps!

  31. Man!…these Terps will break your heart!

  32. bad series by mosley. TO then blocking foul with the bucket.

  33. Hayes does not belong in the game at this time…..He just chokes.

  34. I have a bad feeling about this game.

  35. It’s a gut check. Do they have the balls to grab the victory, or will they shrink down from the pressure?

  36. Al V – What happened to Landon in the 2nd half? Did he leave the game. Am sure you’re happy GV is still in to hold things together.

    Hayes is a non-factor and liability at this point in this game.

  37. wtf we’re losing???

  38. Bowie ALWAYS misses front end of FT. Mosely really should have made that layup.

  39. Suddenly we’re no longer a great FT shooting team, we’re a so-so FT shooting team.

  40. These are two bad basketball teams

  41. folding game after game is more embarrassing than losing by 40, but not by much.

    we are just not very good.

    i wonder if we can reschedule the rest of our season like that HS girls team that lost 100-0 did.

  42. wow. i’ve been watching this on gamecast and two things come to mind:

    1) we can’t shoot. period. it’s been said many times before but it’s true. we are home and can’t anything. 40% from the field and 20% from 3. Hard to win when you do that.

    2) I can’t believe the leads we’ve given up and number of gut-punching losses this team has had this season. BC has outscored us by 17 pts in the second half after we were up by 11 in the first half?? If you compile our second half scores I bet it’s pretty ugly.

  43. What the f*cking sh!t. This team sucks. Eric Hayes has no business being on the court and Dave Neal should only get 15 minutes a game. Where did eveyone go in the 2nd half? It’s like they know they’re supposed to lose and play like shit in the 2nd half.

    Caps about to go to OT

  44. So, do we hate this team more than the Gilchrist, Caner-Medley, Garrison, McCray teams yet?

  45. Losing a 16 point lead at home can now be added to the list of CHOKES by the Terps led by Gary Williams. This team learns nothing from blowing big leads as they do it time and time again. Doesn’t the coach have to bear responsibility for his team constantly losing big leads by giving up easy shots on D and playing listless offense just waiting for the opponent to come back.

    Eric Hayes is horrible, Dupree gets beat even when in good position, no one will box out and GV is mediocre at best.

    Losing another big lead at home in a must win game — lets hear the Gary apologists explain this one.

    And where is everyone who was so impressed with the team earlier this year and having the audacity to talk about an NCAA tourney berth???

    As I have been saying all along it’s 4 NIT’s in 5 years for Gary and there is just NO EXCUSE for that at a major college basketball program.

  46. Wow. I’ve been trying to come up with something witty to say in this post for about five minutes, but, much like the second half of any terps game this season, there’s no point.

  47. okaybowler, is you’re name a nod to Okayplayer, the Roots crew?

    That game was brutal. But I am over it. I need to temper my anger/depression after loses. For my own sanity.

  48. Another ESPN network loss. ESPN=TERP loss. Poor Len Elmore, what must he be thinking….

  49. Not much you can say about this team. They are what they are. They are losers. I don’t say that in a mean way, but they are not winners. They cannot make winning plays. They have no confidence. It’s not coaching, it’s not skill, it’s in their heads. My concern is that all these guys are back next year. What to do then? Can they learn how to win or everytime something goes wrong will they start to wilt again.

  50. NCSU did us no favors either beating Miami in OT.

  51. jonbruns, right on.

    As if this loss wasn’t brutal enough, now we have an internal athletic dept media war.,0,4574072.story

    I was on the fence for the Gary blame game. Ultimately, he’s responsible, but I thought he (and we) had a bit of bad luck with losing out on Maze, Evans, Gilchrest. After all, how different would our team have been with those players? I’d say we’d be top 3-5 in the ACC. Now, we’re the dregs (except for uva). But now we have Yow’s people saying it was Gary’s decision to get rid of those players.

    This could be the beginning of the end.

  52. Put a fork in us, we are done. I am the biggest maryland fan, but time after time we lose double digit leads and then we lose to puke by 40, the most embarassing lost in my lifetime, we don’t have any big men, but three or four years ago, we don’t have a point guard, that is all on gary for not recruiting for the positions neede, 2-4, if we lose to miami, nc, we are 2 and 6, maybe nit, not where i want to be, i have been so proud of our maryland team for the last 20 years, competing against duke and nc, and really being competive, don’t know what has happened in the last 6 years, but not good. As much as I love GW and he has made us a national power in the past, he has got to go.

  53. Doesn’t matter what NCSU did. We’re not going anywhere this year, not even the NIT.

  54. From NCAA champion to perennial NIT team in such a short time wow what a fall for this once proud program and coach.

    Gary Williams is now going to be more remembered for being the leader of a program that has had one of the quickest declines in the history of NCAA tourney winners.
    He is becoming known as a whiner, blaming others, somehow trying to justify the swift and unmistakable decline of the Terps.

    After tonight and the addition of yet another memorable choke that solidifies the destruction of another season I have to wonder what is next —-

    Is 4 NIT’s in 5 years enough to warrant a change? Will it take 5 out of 6, will it take 3 more choke jobs at home while blowing huge leads, more recruits backing out of joining this team –

    How much time does a National Title buy a coach? I think we are going to find out if he somehow makes it beyond this horrible season…

  55. John – No freakig way you’re a MD fan. You’re as sick of we Soupers that defend our coach, our team and our players as we are of your vociferous vitriol.

    Mark the tape. GW needs no apologies. You win or lose with the players you have.
    WTF do you have to offer other than biting sarcasm. A drunken sailor can do as well.

    Yeah we got pummelled by Puke. We came back and played a decent first half against a good team. This team is searching for it’s soul and charcter.

    I’m betting we see a different rotation next game and Hayes on the bench. You can see it with EH and others…..they can shoot but the ball is not dropping. Yes, it sucks but they don’t.

    Once again, our team is not living up to OUR expectations. I’m a fan. I want them to win and when they lose it’s painful. However, throwing excrement on them is only self-serving at best.

    “GV mediocre at best”. Your BB IQ is NOT shining through. Look at his supporting cast. No bigs, he has to carry most of the load and it looks like it’s beginning to wear on him.

    We’re all disappointed and in pain. Make some contributions to the Soup. Show some class.

  56. It seems like we’ve been saying this a lot lately, but the season is not over. Yeah we’re 2-4 in the ACC, but we have the same record at this point in the year as we did last year, 13-7. The next 2 games will change our season, 2 losses=done. 1-1 keeps slim chances alive and 2-0 puts us right where we need to be. BC game is over, move on. Still at the very least 11 games left.

  57. Gerry has been ordained by a higher power to allow and disallow fans into the terp kingdom.

    Should we all send you a terpfan resume so we can see if we are deemed worthy?

  58. Gerry I just point out facts which I guess can be interpreted as vociferous vitriol.

    Gv being mediocre is a matter of opinion — going 7 for 20 tonight, playing terrible basketball since his meltdown against GT, talking big before every season and about taking over games but yet not being able to lead this team to anything more than average results to me makes a mediocre player.

    But please point out one error in my facts about Gary and this team in the last 7 seasons. I merely point out facts and am sorry you are too blind to see them. Ask any unbiased college basketball fan, commentator, reporter anyone with knowledge and they will tell you how shocking it is that the Terps have declined so rapidly in the past several years.

    If the blame doesn’t fall on Gary, or the players, or the fans then where does it lie?
    Calling out others on BB IQ shows your true lack of knowledge and ability to look at facts. I am sure after eeach of the last 5 seasons you have preached patience, not being upset, giving things time to work out well look how that has worked out.

    Please Gerry enlighten me and Terp fans everywhere as to what has caused the Terps to becoming irrelevant and explain how it’s OK to be satisfied with mediocrity. And even while being generous and counting an NIT berth for this year which may not happen, please explain how 4 NIT berths in 5 years is anything but MEDIOCRE.

  59. aholla3,

    Your point is well taken but something is mentally not there with this team to blow so many leads in key games. The core of this team goes back to last year where it also happened. I am not in the huddle or in the locker room at the half, but GW is certainly not inspiring. The schedule in February is:
    Carolina * Chapel Hill, N.C.
    Georgia Tech * Atlanta, Ga.
    Virginia Tech * College Park,
    Clemson * Clemson, S.C.
    North Carolina * College Park,
    Duke * College Park

    We will most likely lose all of these games except maybe GT. We may even miss the NIT at this rate.

  60. In order of most importance:

    1) Fire Gary Williams- There is absolutely no excuse for our program to be this pathetic. We have gotten worse and worse every year for the past 4 years. Recruiting is half the game, and he has failed miserably at it.

    2) Bench Eric Hayes for Sean Mosley – This is a no brainer and it is absolutely ridiculous that Hayes is seeing more than 5 minutes a game. His only asset is to drain 3’s when he’s on, which is seeming more rare all the time. Mosley on the other hand is by far the best defensive player on the team and works harder than anyone else on the team.

    3) Bench Dave Neal for Dino Gregory (or Burney when he’s healthy again). Neal will be a good player off the bench but should come in only after Gregory and Burney have gotten PT. Neal simply isn’t quick enough and doesn’t have the height to get the job down low.

    Starting Lineup: Gregory, Milbourne, Bowie, Mosley, Vasquez

    Also, Tucker should see more PT, he didn’t even play once tonight. He is one of the most athletic and smoothest players we have on the team.

  61. And Gerry I don’t know if I am qualified to be a Terp fan you are correct —

    I was born in raised in Maryland less than 10 minutes from College Park. Have been to countless games, stayed with the team during good and bad times. Once went ice skating with Bob Wades son now that was interesting. Went to Univ of Md and graduated in 1993. Still remember where I was when I found out Len Bias died. Went to the outside courts on campus during the summer and got to watch Walt Williams play on those courts what a great memory. Moved out West 12 years ago but still have watched and kept up with the team consistently. I know more information, stats and FACTS than most people would want to know about basketball and especially my Terps.

    I sincerely hope this brief description of my “qualifications” is good enough for you. I will continue to root for this team while not being afraid to point out problems based on FACTS and if that is a problem for you TOO BAD…

  62. There was no shame losing to Duke, they are the #1 team in the country and I thought we would lose by 20+, but the embarassing display on national TV hurt pretty bad. Tonights loss was another in a series of high profile chokes. I’m critical of GW, but still think he is a decent coach who really doomed himself by not getting key players that are of D1 quality. Our big men are HORRIBLE, Dino played with a lot more intensity tonight, but don’t be fooled, he would not see any playing time on any other ACC team. Don’t bash Neal, he’s all we got, it’s not his fault we have no one better than him to put in the game. The thing that hurt the most was the ticker going accross the top of the TV screen with messages like “Go BC”, “Rice is going to lead us to victory” etc. and then seeing the “Fire Gary” “Another Maryland choke Gary is done” “Maryland is proven to lose big leads” etc. THAT is really embarassing to see on a nationally televised game and it really hit me how far our program has fallen…

  63. Okbowler – I read the Balto Sun article….there’s more to it than you reported.

    Mike Davis- Obviously I think you’re wrong on # 1. No problems with 2 and 3.

    John – Anyone that wants to, can be a fan. We all have impressive “fan resume’s. When will you begin rooting for our team? It’s easy to root for the team when they are winning try it now. Our program has done things other major programs have only dreamt about doing. We have won a NC and average about 20 wins a year. There’s nothing irrelevant about our program . They are not meeting OUR expectations.

    It’s good that you “know more information, stats and facts than most people would want to know about BB and especially my (your) terps” All I am saying is that if they are your terps,,,,, treat them a little better. Be a fan and make positive contribtuions.

    It’s painful enough for all of us to absorb these horrific losses without having fans
    crap all over the program. The program is not losing, the team is.

    I’m tired and pissed. Talk to you tomorrow

  64. Kcali- The only thing that could be worse about that ESPN ticker would be if those were “our fans” doing the posting. I guest that’s instant gratification for them.

    BTW did anyoone watch the ESPN Classic before tonights game It was the 1984 Md Vs VA game in Charlottesville featuring Len Bias, Keith Gatlin, Herman Veal, Adkins, Lefty and the gang. Not bad, for an ostensibly irrelevant program. Why do you suppose ESPN chose that game on the heels of the Duke loss/debacle? Maybe some ESPN producer trying to balance the scales?

    Oh yes…..we won that game.

  65. Everyone has their opinion. Here is mine. I am quite certain that Gary Williams will not be remembered for a decline following a national title. He has done enough over his career that he will be a hall of famer and a coach that took BC, Ohio State, and Maryland to multiple NCAA tournaments, 2 Final 4’s and a National title.

    That being said, we are in a downturn that is inevitable right now. Not that it should have happened, but it’s the reality of now. I’m confident in the play of a guy like Mosley that we’ll be back soon. It’s very difficult for Maryland to be a mediocre team for very long. There will be an end to this and I think it will be soon. Whether Gary is here for it or not remains to be seen.

    I’m all for giving him more time now that he seems re-energized in the recruiting wars, but his battles with the administration will end up costing him his job if they continue to lose. If he does leave, it’s essential the next hire is a big time coach who can recruit. It’s not time to take a chance on an inexperienced guy. We are Maryalnd and no matter what others may say, we are relevant regardless of our record the last few years.

    There should be no excuses, but I’m not ready to throw in the towel on a program that, in my opinion, has had a combination of bad luck and a bit of laziness. It’s easy sometimes to get high on yourself after finally reaching the top of the mountain after a career of trying. I’m not upset with that. But now is the time to bounce back. There are no more benefits of the doubt. This season is pretty much over and next year, there should be no excuses. I don’t care who is here.

  66. Here’s the story of the night folks:

    Eric Hayes: 1-8 (0-5 from 3); 1-2FT – 3 pts; 1 rb; 3 asst; 2TOs, 2 PFs in (drumroll) 28 MINUTES OF PLAYING TIME!

    I understand that the kid is out of position (he’s not a freakin 2 guard Gary) and my confidence would be shaken too if every summer my head coach told me that I would be moving back to starting point guard only to find out that you’re really playing shooting guard once the season starts.

    And that’s the problem with Hayes, if he’s not running the team, he’s not doing anything else productive on the floor. He doesn’t play off the ball well. He is too small and not quick enough to guard anyone in this league. He can’t create his own shot. Hell, he’s supposed to be a 90% ft shooter and he missed one of two tonight.

    In order for this team to win, we need every bucket imaginable, every break and some freakin luck… we can’t be playing 4 on 5 with Hayes putting up those sort of numbers. He either needs to get with the program or Mosley and Tucker need to start taking his minutes (anyone have any clues what Tucker has to do to see the floor? I’m afraid he has transfer written all over him)….

  67. One other note. After reading the rebuttal’s from the Maryland athletic department today regarding Gary’s comments about recruits, this could get very ugly in the offseason and could very much affect his job as well as the recruits that he currently has secured. Can you imagine the inside help not coming next year if Gary is let go? That would NOT be a good way to start a new era.

  68. John,

    You are not the first and won’t be the last to be the recipient of Gerry’s vitriol. If you say anything critical of GW or a player, Gerry’s predictable response is YOU ARE NOT AN F*(&(*ING fan. OK, maybe that’s an exaggeration, but I have watched him try to bully many who are critical of what’s going on. I’m not sure why he has to be that way, but it’s a waste of your good time to respond. It would be nice if our Jeremy or Gregg would require him to take a couple of valiums before posting.

    Personally, I don’t think GW should be fired. As painful as it has been to watch the program decline, he did rescue the program in it’s truly darkest days and won an NCAA title. It’s his job as long as he wants it. That said, I hope he doesn’t want it much longer.

    He is a good coach and teacher, but I think when he won his title, he let up a little. He’s over 60, set for life. For whatever reason, he’s not recruiting the right players and, as someone earlier noted, the players he needs. Witness DJ struggling at point guard and our dearth of inside players this year. Plus, if the flex offense requires certain types of players, he should recruit that type and not try to force players into it.

    What disturbs me about him is that he has become a constant whiner…more ACC teams should make the dance, we should be ranked, now it’s the university (read: Yow) who has screwed up his recruiting, it’s John Gilchrist’s fault. Plus, it’s gotten tiresome to see him screaming at the players he has recruited. I wonder how many players see that and say, not for me.

    In short, I’ve been watching the Terps for almost 40 years and have fond memories of going to Cole with my father and now to Comcast with my daughters.

    But something is not right in College Park. It’s a pain clearly that everybody on this board feels — it would just be nice if you could express an opinion without being blasted by some.

    Keep the faith and, as I said on another thread, there’s always the Women’s team — my youngest daughter wear’s Shay Doron’s jersey with pride and loved the win over UNC.

  69. Chrs0049 – I agree, Hayes is supposed to bring good outside shooting, but when his shots aren’t falling he doesn’t help much. I much rather see Mosley, at least he is tough on the boards and has pretty good D. Don’t know why Mosley didn’t play the last few mins, wrist injured with that fall?

    Gregg – I agree this is getting ugly. Having a public feud between the hall of fame coach and the AD, never good for any program. Between his relationship with Yow, and the with how many Alumns feel, and JSK being ineligible (How do you not get a 2.0 your very first semester of your freshmen year?) I can’t help but feel that this is going to lead to a very ugly breakup, I hope I am wrong though.

  70. Holy Sh-t. JSK ineligible? I saw him in street clothes, I assumed injury. Plus, I was at Comcast, but didn’t see Burney on the bench. Maybe it was my eyes.

  71. GERRY, you misunderstood, it was OUR fans that were saying that (you could tell) that’s why I put some of the BC posts up, to show the difference in that their fans were rooting on their team and players and OUR fans were commenting on Gary and talking about choking again and the demise of the program!!! That’s what was so disheartening to see on national TV. Also hearing the boos at Comcast and the fans filing out early.

  72. After watching this game I now believe it’s going to be a challenge for this team to win 17 games.

    These are tough times for the program. It is my sincere hope that regardless of how any of us feel about Coach Williams, we’ll all support the kids wearing our colors/representing our school.

  73. Should Gary stay? Should he go? How much time does he have left? Is it all his fault? Damn this is getting old. This same discussion happens after every game, win or lose. Each game is seen as fuel for the supporters or the detractors. I like to say we move on. But then there’s always something to talk about, i.e. this recent feud between Gary and the athletic department. This is getting ugly and I hope it doesn’t lead to a firing or a force out. It would be nice to see Gary leave after a successful season. The way things are looking that is going to have to wait for next year.

    Can we get rid of halftime? Seriously, let’s start a motion to have the NCAA toss it in the trash. We’ve got to be the worst second half team around. Tonight all the rhythm was gone after intermission. They had nothing. I was at the game and it didn’t look like B.C. made any real adjustments, other than a bit more aggressive defense, and the Terps simply collapsed in every facet of the game. It’s so mind boggling. I watched the game intently and I can’t even understand it. It truly does feel like two different teams were playing from half to half.

    The bottom line is this team can’t shoot and thus is unable to score in the half court consistently. Whey they’ve got momentum and rhythm they run the offense smoothly in between getting transition opportunities. But momentum only lasts so long. When the pressure comes to score they can’t do it. 29% FG in the second half tonight! We hit the 5 foot shots in the second half, we win the game. It’s that simple. Unfortunately, that percentage is the norm for these guys. They play hard. But without consistent scoring, they aren’t going to beat anybody.

  74. I agree DBR. It’s possible they may only win a couple more games. But I’ll be watching at Comcast or at home the rest of the season hoping and cheering for victory. Hate seeing the team struggle so much.

  75. And another thing. Stop shooting so many 3’s!! They shot 3-17 tonight, a whopping 17.6%. Take a step or two in. How bout a 17 footer? Those shoots are there too. They can position themselves to take them.

  76. Again the main point should be what is wrong with the program and how to fix it.

    Becoming a mediocre team that is about to miss the NCAA tourney for the 4th time 5 years signifies a problem no matter you look at it. Gary Williams rescued the Terps from near oblivion and is a Hall of Fame coach no doubt but that does not mean the last several years can be ignored. Gary is largely responsible for the players on this team as he recruited them so he has no excuses. Having teams blow large leads at home especially in crucial games cannot be taken lightly.

    Remember that in the HISTORY of college basketball few teams have fallen so fast after winning a National Title. This is not one bad season but a trend with no light at the end of the tunnel. Forget the emotional pain of losing and watching this program continue to slip I just want to know what is the next move?

    If Gary Williams continues to coach this team then how much leeway do his supporters give. Another NIT next year is that enough, losing more big leads at home is that enough, continuing to miss out on top recruits is that enough —- what needs to happen for the Terps to make a change and rebuild, yes rebuild a now mediocre program…

  77. Isn’t there another tournament? Do they still have that one, for teams that can’t get into NIT? I forget its name.

  78. Long-time reader, first-time commenter. GERRY, I have a couple of thoughts for you:

    First, your argument that anyone who is critical of the program is not a true fan is just plain wrong. I repeat — wrong. Being a fan and being a critic are not mutually exclusive things.

    Second, who died and made you the final arbiter of fandom? You have drawn an artificial line in the sand and are using it to justify your own high-handedness. Let your arguments stand on their own merits…you shouldn’t need to create an artificial construct for what is “right” and “wrong.”

    Third, if you are truly so upset by criticisms of the program, why do you hang out in the comments section of a blog? It’s like someone with a cat hair allergy hanging out in a pet store and sneezing on the employees all day. Either you’re a sadist or a masochist…it’s one or the other.

    Fourth, you constantly say that the team is not living up to “our” expectations, meaning the expectations of the team’s detractors and “haters.” Does this mean to imply that the team is currently living up to your expectations, or stranger yet, that you believe the team is living up to its own expectations? Or, does it mean “true fans” should have low expectations? That’s just odd.

    Fifth, you criticize your fellow fans for being critical, but then you criticize them. Doesn’t Terp solidarity extend to your fellow fans as well as your team?

    Your devotion is admirable, but your fanatical insistence on lockstep optimism is starting to appear not only misguided, but desperate and even delusional. Instead of taking out your frustration on your fellow commenters, who are just trying to talk about the team as is the intention of this site, why don’t you channel it somewhere else?

    Okay, off my soapbox now…back to the Terp talk. I just want this to be the fun and lively forum it was intended to be. Go Terps!

  79. I have been mulling over a question in my mind. Would you accept, say, ten years straight going to the NIT for one Championship? I think I would. By the way I am in no way insinuating that the Terps will go to ten straight NITs. Also, I am not trying to get into the whole Gary NC pass thing. Just seemed like an interesting question. Thoughts?

  80. I pullled this off the comments section of the WaPo story re: last night’s game:

    “Kendall Marshalls father posted this note on the md high school board regarding Maryland recruiting his son. kendall is going to UNC…he’s a top rated PG from O’Connell.”–

    “Here’s the honest truth. We were asked to come to UMD by an assistant. We went into a room. Dressing room. Had a plan laid out for us on a chalk board. Mind you, there were clothes everywhere. My wife was asked to sit in the lockeroom while we were being talked to. We (Kendall and I) were given the whole recruit talk. That was it. No Gary anywhere to be seen. We were told a couple of days later..”that was an offer.”

    I am not bad mouthing MD or anything, but that is how we were recruited. To this day, I have still yet to ever speak to GW. Neither has Kendall. As we spent time talking with other programs, we had about 12 big time offers. there were only 3 schools who we knew were sincere and weren’t reading from a book while recruiting us. UNC, G’town, and UVA. That being said, we thought UMD has great fans and facilities. We just felt like GW was never really involved. How can you get an offer and never meet the head coach? We just moved on. We think GW is a heck of a coach, but when picking a school, the head coach is the most important factor as far as we are concerned.”
    1/27/2009 10:33:04 PM

  81. The rift between GW and the Ath. Dept. is growing. It is all over the Wash. Post. Read one of the articles below.
    I am afraid this may be the catalyst for change at the Head Coach position, adding in:
    Our 2-4 ACC record with 10 mostly brutal games left.
    No NCAA tourney slot in sight.
    A near empty middle section at Comcast. The middle section between the foul lines is where all the building donors sit, and I have never seen it this empty, certainly not for an ACC game. And it has snowed before and still had packed houses. My row had only me and a friend and the one behind me had 4 people in it. And this was center court. Across from me same sections were equally empty.
    A growing chasm between GW and the AD’s. Where there was once detente between the two, now there is enmity. GW won’t win this battle and I am concerned it won’t end up pretty.
    How did it get to this?
    I am still a fan and it is trying times right now. However its better to be a fan than not. I have learned that by pretty much loosing interest in the Redskins, who I beloved equally with the Terps for 40+ years, thanks to 10 years of Napoleon Snyder.
    So Gary likers or lovers, lets hope he can steady the ship and exit smoothly over the next few years. Gary dislikers or hater you may be getting your wish early.

  82. I have come to the point where I watch the game and get that eery feeling after about 5 minutes of the second half where we havent scored a point that I know we are doomed. Last nite’s loss said a lot to me about the team. In the previous meltdown losses this season I was pissed off at Gary for not changing defenses or trying to milk the shot clock or having the wrong players in at the wrong time. In some instances this was true. What I have come to realize is that last nite is not on Gary, but rather the players. You could see the air sucked right out of them and they looked like seals in a shark storm. Gary can’t teach heart and many of these kids don’t have it. I would be much happier with a team that sucked because they suck and not because they don’t give it their all. I do beleive we have a bunch less talent on the team than we are used to, but Gary has squeezed every last drop out of his kids and made us a competitive ACC team who could very easily have three or 4 more wins. It kills me to see that Gary is getting bombarded with hate and wishes of goodbyes. I do believe that he has slacked off in recruiting and this has hurt us the past few years. It also comes donw to the accountability of the players and the maturation of players. Some players seem to fit the system when recruited but fail to grow. Eric Hayes is the plague. He gavce me so much hope his freshman year b ut he never built on that. Braxton Dupree is a joke. I don’t know what he does all day long besides be dumb. It is the simple things like boxing out or moving your feet in life that he lacks. Noone could have predicted his mess of a self. Gist killed me last year with the way he digressed in many areas. I love that kid’s game but it was very apparent that he was trying to develop himself into an NBA ready player and was a fade away maniac instead of being the athletic low post player we were accustomed to. Those players are just a few instances of our past few years of woe. With gist at least he left it all out there every nite. Dave Neal is a damn statue but he has heart and does what he can with his lump of a person self. Osby was not a basketball player but gave everything he had and Gary turned him into more than anyone could have ever expected. Mosley seems to get Gary’s coaching style and is growing and so is bowie even tho he does dumb shit at very inopportune times. Milbourne is our go to man and our offense should be run through him. In his own quiet way he gets Gary. In trying to look at this team from a psychoanalytic standpoint, they aren’t cohesive and lack a leader. No one steps up and everyone is timid. They let themselves get lost in the moment. From being a former school teacher, those are things you can prepare for and try to enstill in players, but it may never materiulaize and Gary can’t be blamed for that.

    I’m 27 and and have been a die hard fan since I can remember. Gary is all I know of MD basketball. I am not ready for anything else, I really don’t want anything else because if you have followed Maryland bball over the years, as rigid as Gary is in an assload of ways, he has tried to change up some things to nurture this team into relevancy with the lack of big men and talent. Gary made me appreciate the game and enstilled so much passion in me as a young fan that it hurts when I lose at anything and it kills me when MD loses a bball game. At the end of the day, isn’t caring so much for a team because of the history of excellence it has built all you can ask for in a program? If Gary is forced out after this year, I am giving up my season tickets. I won’t acknowledge MD basketball unless we get Patsos or Dickerson back to lead this team. I don;t see that happening because it won’t be a big enough splash for the general public and I don’t know how willing they would be to come back if Gary is forced out. I am giving Gary another year to see what he can do with the two big men coming up. I think that as long as they perform solidly and box out, play some defense, and get some putbacks in the hole then we should be an NCAA Tourney Team next year. With Bowie at the point, Mosley, Milbourne and the two new guys we should be fine.

    Do you want a program that will take an assload of years to rebuild and build back up our recruiting ties in the area all over again? Gary is finally out there showing his face all over the place on the recruiting front according to DBRuss and I see nothing but good things coming from Lefty’s boy. People need to understand from a recruiting standpoiint that it takes years to build a base and rapport with AAU Teams, Coaches and players. With players needing to be coddled and told they “are the shit” at such a young age now, you have to move on kids 3 years or more before you can get them to commit. With the turnover in staff and GAry having relied on everyone else to do the dirty work, he is now feeling the effects. If Gary is asked to leave now, those 2010 recruits definately aren’t coming and that class and the seeds he planted for the 2011 class are shitcanned also. The names that are being throw out there right now for recruits seem promising and with the law of statistics and diligence on the staff’s part, we are bound to land some studs for those two classes.

    As ugly as the program looks now it is heading in a better direction than is being splattered all ofver the media. We have a Hall of Fame Coach, who in his later years has finally committed himself to recruiting and showing his face, a solid set of young promising point guards, and all around bad ass in Landon. He has pieces to the puzzle in place so let’s see what he can do with what he has and is building on and if that shell cracks then it wasn’t meant to be. If Gary gets cooked at MD I guarantee he is not done coaching and it will never feel right to me to see Gary coach another team cuz I guarantee he would make that team relevant.

    To recap, most of the team lacks heart and that coupled with lack of talent is shitting on us. Gary can be blamed for recruiting in the past and in this class, but he can’t control his teams lack of effort and he is on the up and up in recruiting kids now. We have a solid gaurd set for the future and some promising big men coming in to fill our biggest deficiency. We have had it so good for so many years and for all of that to come crashing down when there is light at the end of this very narrow tunnel would be a damn shame. Go Terps.

  83. If what the Marshall kid’s dad said is true it’s a sad commentary. We’ll continue to get the David Neals,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

  84. Everyone…listen to Harry…he’s one of those big donors…

    The operational WaPo link to read is:

    Note the chronology because I get the feeling that there will be a lot of revisionist’s history going on this site in the next couple of days. I mentioned on the last thread that Gary was engaging in passive-aggressive behavior, and right on cue we get Installment 2. To recap: It wasn’t me who wouldn’t let them in (implication: It’s Yow). I didn’t say it was anyone at MD…you all are just picking on me (implication: You’re taking Yow’s side). Gary…you fired the first shot in this, so MAN UP and stop acting like a CRYBABY. You’re acting like a sullen little 63 year woman. Stop this. It’s not just sad, it’s pathetic. You run your mouth, then get smacked down with evidence, and then you change your story. (by the way, it seems like Yow and this Worthington lady play politics in the Untouchable’s Chicago-style…bring a gun to a knife fight…Gary beware).

    Harry is right…Gary will not win this fight against Yow. Who do you dump? The HOF coach who brought you to the top or the AD who has brought in the most successful era of MD athletics (NCs in multiple sports)? Empty seats in Comcast tell you all you need to know. Ralphie understand the implications of empty seats at Byrd, it seems, more than Gary does at Comcast. Yow has made MD donors proud of more than just hoops. Gary is now soiling his pants in fits of rage. Get control or yourself Gary.

    Wutang….where have you gone Joe DiMaggio…don’t give up your season tickets. MD hoops will return to the national scene one way or another. The Administration of the school won’t allow the program to wallow for too long. The school is too good for that now.

    Gerry…I know you’re going to yell at me, but I ain’t mad at ya…I know your heart’s in the right place and you’re wearing it on your sleave right now…but try to go easy on us and try not taking out your frustrations so much on us.

  85. Wheels, right on. GW is showing regressive behavior fitting of my 8 year olds occasional hissy fits. He needs to de-escalate this right now.
    What I would like to hear is “OK everybody, lets calm down. I am frustrated about how the direction of the team is going and some of my comments were taken out of context. I do not blame the A.D. for the player migration. Evans did not disclose his full criminal record to us so he is responsible for not being here, no one else. Gilchrest was led by his “handler” who got himself a job at S. Florida, so they are responsible for not being here. No one else. I am now going to focus on getting our team in position to make a run and making this a successful season.”
    I can dream can’t I.
    Oh, it’s 9:30, time to turn on CNBC and get really depressed.

  86. If anybody ever comes up with a 20-minute college game format, we’re there.

  87. I feel bad for these kids. They don’t lack heart or quit, they just don’t have a ton of talent and lack confidence. In the second half of games teams get smart and start pounding us down low. Neal got abused again in the second half. He is just no match for the 6’8 athletic guys in the post.

    As far as Gary goes, he is a fighter. It is what he has always done. I agree with him about the GG transfer. The kid wanted to go and the athletic department wanted to hold him here against his will. Gary let the kid out of his commitment because he didn’t want to be here. The Evans thing is on Gary. He definitely painted that picture like the AD kept him out. I actually agree with the decision to not have him admitted if he wasn’t honest about his past. But Gary shouldn’t have twisted that to fall back on the AD.

    Now the AD has no business going public about this. After Gary’s comments, why wasn’t he brought in a meeting the Yow and the president? That’s how you handle this thing. You don’t go public as an AD dept and submarine your head basketball coach. Yea, Gary “started it” but he is the talent and you are suppose to be the administration. You should know better.

    Gary won’t quit. He just won’t. That being the case, you want to be the university that forces out the best coach you ever had? It will not look good for anyone and not help our recruiting.

    Gary deserves to have the recruits he has come in and see how it plays out. All this back and forth between the AD and Gary needs to get nipped in the bud now. The president needs to step up and fix this today.

  88. Rick,
    Ditto what you said.
    But the fact that the AD and proxies went public so quickly show’s what they think of Gary. It’s like they were waiting for this opening to escalate this.

  89. In view of all the public bickering (and you can be sure the rival coaches have all the press clippings of this mess), the only thing to save the program as it is now constructed is for Debbie Yow to publicly show her support for Gary long term. That way, Gary gets a full chance to bring his guys in, for the 2010 class. No one wants to come to a program where you don’t know who the coach is going to be a couple years from now. Even the 2009 guys will want that assurance. So Debbie’s support is essential.

    The ball is clearly in Yow’s court. If she wants Gary out, and she probably does, all she has to do is remain silent, and Gary will twist slowly in the wind. The program will continue to fall apart, and she will then just do the obvious and inevitable. It will not appear to be her fault. Yet, she is the key, and she needs to speak out now!

    It is not hopeless. With the two bigs coming in for next season, added to Mosely, GV and Milbourne for their senior year, Bowie, Gregory and Tucker (and, who knows, maybe even an improved Dupree), a turnaround is possible. The stage is set for a good 2010 recruit class to build on that base. But Yow’s silence at this point will doom all of these hopes.


    I left EH out of that list on purpose. He could help some, but not as a starter. If I was Cliff Tucker and saw that EH was taking all my minutes, I would want to transfer too.

  90. I think firing Yow is better than firing Gary.

  91. I agree that the ADs shouldn’t have gone public, but I don’t think you can fire Yow even if you or GW dislike her. She has a pretty good track record in hiring coaches who have won national championships. I know many of you scoff at Field Hockey, Women’s Basketball and Lacrosse, but I bet the Board of Regents and many alumni don’t. I don’t know if the program operates in the black.

    How many people here have seen the person who had hired them leave? It’s not fun when the old boss leaves and a new one arrives. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, the boss usually wins, whether they were there 20 years ago or not. As great as GW has been for the Terps, I think he is skating on thin ice. It’s really too bad that it has come to this and Yow certainly must share some of the responsibility for communication problems between the two. But she’s his boss as much as he’d like to think he is bigger than the entire program.

  92. DBR: Hands down you’re our inside dopester re: MD recruiting. Any thoughts on the comments I posted ten posts ago of the father of UNC-bound Kendall Marshall concerning GW’s courtship style?

  93. Harryfish – “But the fact that the AD and proxies went public so quickly show’s what they think of Gary. It’s like they were waiting for this opening to escalate this.”

    You’re onto something, fella. Yow letting a proxy do the talking–publicly–says everything. Yow talking publicly would say one thing. But a proxy talking publiclly clearly got Yow’s okay to do it and means Yow doesn’t think it necessary to engage Gary as an equal. It also gives her room for maneuvering, depending on what he does or doesn’t do next. If Gary doesn’t turn the team around this year or at least start playing smarter politics, this’ll be his finale. I’ve been a fan of his since he played freshman ball 40-odd years ago, so I’m sad to see this. But if it happens, it’s understandable.

  94. Kaze, you’re dating us. Gary’s freshman year was mine, too. We even had Math class together. Re: Yow and the press war. I would add that Gary was making a public attack on one of her associate directors. The Worthington women had a right to respond, even if the politics of letting her fire back are debatable. My take on Yow is that she is being whipsawed.

  95. kaze,

    You are right. Debbie will see how things will go over the next year or so.

    Nonetheless, the ball is in her court to save the GW program. Mere silence is the same as letting it all go. GW won’t be able to recruit or even hold onto both of his current 2009 recruits unless something is done to change this dynamic. The only thing I can think of to save it is for Debbie to publicly support Gary, by speaking to her long term support for him. If her comment relates to the short term, that is not nearly good enough.

    I believe she sees this dynamic, so it will be interesting to follow how or if she responds.

  96. i don’t see how some of you are still defending this team. blindly supporting this pathetic shadow of what was once maryland basketball doesn’t make you a “real fan” it makes you an idiot. vasquez has talent, yes, but he’s a hotheaded moron and really never does anything down the stretch when we need him most. when we had a lead last night and he was posing for the fans i felt like jumping through my tv and punching him in the face. get over yourself assclown. and i love gary williams maybe more than any other sports figure, but the man has lost it. you can say he’s doing the best he can with these players, but it’s his responsibility to recruit good players too. not to mention he really hasn’t done a good job coaching this season either; when you consistently blow big leads, the blame has to be placed squarely on the coach. less than a decade after back-to-back final fours, and maryland is in shambles. i see no light at the end of this tunnel. the program is finished until they move on

  97. After the Duke debacle, I turned the tv on early in the game half expecting to see us losing but was pleasantly surprised that we were winning. So I stayed and watched the first half. Not getting many chances to watch this team because I live in PA, I was very impressed watching Milbourne and Bowie and even Mosley although he has some growing to do. Vaz seemed to be doing ok but seemed out of place and still forcing too many of his shots. Hayes seemed lost out there. The team overall played well defensively, crashed the boards and seemed to be getting a lot of good shots and making them. Then I took my son upstairs to take a bath and bed and by the time I got back down, the Terps were only up by 4 and seemed a distant comparison to the team I was watching on the first half. And the rest is history. Another loss after leading by double digits.

    The optimist in me says that this team can’t be that bad if they can build leads on teams but the pessimist says the must really stink if they keep losing them late in the game. They realistically could be 5-1 in the ACC but they are 2-4. I’m not sure who is to blame for the collapses in 3 of their ACC losses. Gary obviously needs to find the right pieces and figure out what changed in these games and move forward and the players need to learn and grow.

    This team will probably not make the tournament but I don’t think they are that many players away from competing. I will continue to root for them this year and hope that the additions and subtractions are a net positive next year with or without Gary.

  98. Well, you can’t let it drift.

    I like giving Gary a chance to build on his current young guys, the 2009 guys, and see what he can put together for 2010. Now through spring 2009 is the crucial period to get recruits for 2010 and to retain your 2009 guys. So Debbie has to speak her long-term support now. Gary has earned that much easily, in my judgment.

    Sean and others, if you want to fire GW, what is your timetable and how will your timetable affect the 2009 and 2010 classes? You can’t just say, dump him. What is your thoughtful approach to this? What is the scenario and how will that scenario affect the well-being of the Terps’ basketball program?

  99. Hey group– I was at last night’s crap contest. No I don’t believe our kids quit, and we should not boo them as I heard for Neal in the last two minutes. Those fans show their ass but would have been up cheering if he made the basket. It is our coach’s fault if we play like this. Our kids did not quit on this team of their fans, but we quit on them. with boos and nasty remarks. Talk about ability is fine, but talk about lumps and other personal remarks show our ass. The coach brings them it IS his fault when thing go sour. Also this he is a H.O.F. coach is too early to tell. I’m tired of hearing it. The early record truly deserves the mention. But, what is we go another 3 or 4 years of NIT or no tournaments, then I sincerely doubt it.

  100. Frustrated Fan I posted about Kendall Marshall’s dad’s comments in response to someone else a few threads ago. In a nutshell Kendall was never coming to UMD and his family knows it. All that kid ever wanted was an offer from UNC and as soon as he got it he popped to them. Verballed as a sophomore in HS. The visit his pops talks about was an unofficial visit. Just so they could have some “cover” from the local media in the DC area. Head coaches are not always at unofficial visits. His father coming out now was basically a kick UMD when they’re down/don’t blame my kid for going elsewhere thing.

    Having said that…has Gary’s recruiting been lacking since the NC? I’d say yes based on a combination of assistant coach turnover, getting highly ranked players that ultimately didn’t work out and a poor overall job of recruiting.

    And for those that feel Gary has “lost” the ability to recruit/identify ACC caliber talent you can make the case that Gary identified some talents that could help us on the court in Bobby Maze, Tyree Evans, Terrance Jennings and Ater Majok but they either couldn’t get into UMD or their recruitment blew up in UMD’s face for one reason or another.

  101. Someone told me GV was crying on the bench at the end of the game. My seats are far from the bench, so I couldn’t see. True?

  102. Thanks, DBR. I missed your Kendal Marshall post on a previous thread. Sound like a groin shot from the kid’s dad.

  103. I appreciate all the comments even those directed at me.

    Bob – I never said, ” if you are critical of the program, you are not a true fan”. I don’t own that. There are fans and there are critics and there are critical fans. However it seems like there are some full time “critics” parking here. I don’t believe you are one of them. Even Jeremy had some critical things to say a few games ago but he did it in a classy manner. Someone said I was looking for “lockstep optimism”. I’m not but “lockstep vitriol” isn’t helpful either. Remarks like, “This program sucks, Gary sucks, Vaz is a SPAZ, Md is irrelevant” et al sullies the program (and the Soup too) and gives others who visit the site (including our student and public fans) not much reason to revisit.

    The current public fray between GW and the AD Dept is inexcusable and they should extinguish the fire before it does structural damage.

    I have said before that history has shown us that >………..”great companies, great nations, great teams /programs and great individuals can only be destoyed from within”.

    This is a “storied program”. Lefty said we were bound for the “promised land”. GW took us there. We have survived much tragedy, some inflicted some not e.g., Len Bias, Owen Brown, Bob Wade. That happens. That’s life. I don’t know how to “throw in the towel” nor do I know how to lose. I do know losing is painful.

    My first MD BB game was going to Cole Field House to see this new coach- Lefty Driesell. I was there when he came through the tunnel and “doing his thing”. The place was electric. The MD BB program has done it all. We have accomplished things some other programs only dream of doing. There’s no perpetual shame on our program. The University has a bunch of NC’s in other sports.

    Am I in pain over the last 4-5 years? Of course and so are many of you. Everyone has their ideas of how to fix it. I worked for a company – a great one at that- where there was a rule that rarely was violated. It went like this……”Constructive criticism is welcomed. If you have a complaint (YOU) come with a solution or don’t come at all”. Ideas and solutions get the issue going in the right direction.

    My comments of late have been directed at those that complain, for the sake of it – and rarely offer any constructive ideas. Fire GW. This team sucks are mouthed by “critics” not fans.

    Isn’t it great to have these friendly exchanges?

    For what it’s worth, here’s what our program needs.

    Our BB program needs to REINVENT itself.

    How’s that?

    This is not going to happen until Coach and AD bury the hatchet, hopefully not in each other’s skulls. The program is somewhat soiled now and we might even lose some of those “commitments” in 2010-2011 and onward. Say what you want about Deb Yow but she should never have let this get to the currant state of affairs. It’s was, as many of you have said, her responsibility to to ensure this didn’t go public. Now, she has to extinguish it or take it forward. The latter may do irreparable damage to the program.

    As a team, we are too predictable. Too easily broken down. We have obvious liabilities that compound the problem e.g., no effective Bigs, weak perimeter shooting, Hayes who’s in a freefall, CT probably ready to transfer, JSK ineligible (?) and a public fray. Gary needs to make some changes and I believe he will. I feel bad for Hayes….he’s a real good kid but he’s supposed to be doing a man’s job now in his Jr. year. He needs to sit. CT needs to start. Mosely is getting better but he’s not a CT.

    I still don’t believe this season is lost. We should be NCAA bound and it can still happen. There’s a lot of great programs that don’t get to the dance end up in the NIT. You just don’t want to make a habit of them.

    The best example of a team on the rise was our win at N. Carolina last year. Unfortunately it was also our undoing. After that game, we went to the well too often. Pounding the ball inside and our perimeter shooters didn’t get as many opportunities to diversify their game and skills. This year we are paying the price. I believe GV could be our best scorer but not our best shooter. He’s also our best playmaker…..period. However, you see his hesitancy now.A scorer can’t deal with the “what if I miss this shot” mindset and that’s also permeated Hayes thinking. Milbourne is coming on strong although he still disappears for long perods. It’s one stop forward 2 steps back for this team. IF they can get it together, there will be much improvement. If not…….?

    I don’t believe we will be one and done in the ACC Tourney. If we can make some noise there and along the way pick up a few upsets….we’ could make dance. A long shot yes, but the road is not blocked.

    Hope that helps. I’m a fan….and I realize you are too.

  104. You have 200 minutes to divide up among your players per game. How would you do it? Of course, each game is different, and you want to take advantage of match-ups, the hot hand, etc. But on average, how would you divide them up?

    Here’s mine:

    GV 33
    Milbourne 33
    Bowie 30
    Mosley 29
    Gregory 19
    Dupree 18
    Tucker 18
    EH 10
    Neal 10

  105. EdDC – I like your breakdown, but I’d probably switch Neal and Dupree’s distribution. Dupree still has to show us that he can play (I think he played well last night in limited action, but 10 min a game for now would be fine for him). Neal is a little more of a scorer so I’d rather him get more minutes.

    Tucker definetly has to be out there more. He CAN’T be worse than Hayes, and he’s more athletic and a better rebounder.

  106. Suppose Gary DOES NOT lead this team to the NCAAs. Does he get another year? I think he will, although I don’t think he should.

    Suppose Gary DOES NOT lead this team to the NIT. Does he get another year? All bets are off and he’s a goner.

    Suppose Gary LEADS this team to the NCAAs. He finishes out his remaining 3 years and rides off into the sunset on his own terms.

    How do these scenarios affect 2010 recruits? That depends on Gary’s replacement should he leave. I’m still unsure if Williams and Padgett have signed LOIs. If they have, they are locked in unless they want to sit out a year. Does a Gary departure at the end of this year cost us 2010 recruits? It depends on who MD would hire. However, losing games right now can’t help 2010 recruiting as it is. Pick your poison.

    It seems to me that the argument about giving Gary 1 more year (assuming another missed NCAA or worse) has been made now for the last 3 years. At what point do you stop throwing good onto bad? Escallation of committment…the sunk cost fallacy…knee deep in the big muddy…at some point MD is going to have to rip off the band aid and let the chips fall. If Gary leaves (voluntarily or involuntarily), Yow will have to make a splash on the hire. It has to be someone that get a recruit’s attention. A shot in the arm…new energy. A transition can occur with positive outcomes. It’s just an unknown.

    What everyone needs to acknowledge is the here and now. 12 steppers…admitting a problem is the first step…

    I posed this question on the last thread but no one responded. What if Gary can’t lead MD back? The supposition has always been that he can, like flicking a switch. What if he can’t? You have to recognize that possibility. Ali lost his jab and his feet, Ruth lost his swing, Gerhig lost his body, Jordan lost his jump and step…the will was there but they just couldn’t do it. Admitting the possibility that a 63 year old man might not be able to do it is not heresy…it just might be reality.

    His “I’ve been here 20 years…before all of them…I’ve won a title…they haven’t…they’re just trying to make me look bad” stuff is revealing about the man. He’s grasping at straws…he’s clinging to anything he can…he’s reeling…and I think he’s lost. It’s very sad to see a champ go out like this. Very sad indeed.

  107. A friend of mine, watching on TV, mentioned GV crying on the bench. I didn’t see tears but i saw an emotional player…looking despondent. Then he put the towel over his face.

    As far as JSK the academic issue seems to be about an ESOL course he took.

  108. Wheels makes a lot of good points. Each year Gary becomes more defensive and the arguments are getting stale. Hearing how he won a National Title, still wins lots of games, can’t get any respect blah blah blah it gets old after 7 years.

    And I would love to know how many years does it take to “make a habit” out of being mediocre. By most people’s definition I would think not making the NCAA tourney in 4 out of 5 years is definitely a habit and something that cannot be dismissed as a fluke occurrence.

    One or two down years is understandable, but 5 years of hoping to make the tourney, justifying losses, justifying missing out on recruits, talking about past accomplishments, blaming fans, blaming the AD, blaming anyone but himself — 5 years of this is just too much!!!

  109. Yes, Williams and Padgett have signed LOIs. Often when a coaching change is made, the new coach tries to convince the players to stay. If they want to leave, however, sometimes a release is granted.

  110. This WaPo incident IS the beginning of the end and whether it takes a month or a year or three depends on GW–his days are numbered. The Asst. AD calling GW out publicly suggests Yow has marked him for termination and it’s only a matter of time. I remember when she canned Duffner–an extremely nice guy. He sued UMD just to get his contract paid. He won, and the U appealed it he won again in the Court of Special appeals. That was Yow too. She’s been good for the bottom line but she is awful.

  111. If we were to make a coaching change we should absolutely give those kids a release. It is the right thing to do. They committed with Gary as head coach. We do not want to be one of “those” universities that don’t consider what is best for the student athlete.

  112. ESPN picked up the story

  113. I’ve defended Gary Williams over the pas couple of seasons as the talks of a coaching change in College Park have snowballed, but I simply can’t justify letting GW stay around any longer. He refuses to get star players that might leave early (is it just me or is this because of nightmares from Jon Gilchrist) even though it’s apparent that college basketball has changed and star players are what puts a team over the top.
    Another reason why Gary should be gone, perhaps the main reason, is lack of development by a lot of his players. GV has made some strides since he was a freshman, but he still makes poses after he makes a three and still runs his mouth off, not to mention he’s still turning the ball over like crazy. GV has to be a mature team leader and act like he’s made a 3-point before, but Gary still hasn’t toned him down. As for GV’s backcourt-mate Eric Hayes, I could ramble on for hours how disappointing he’s been. I’d say he’s digressed over the course of his career at MD. He looked like a heady freshman with a nice little bag of tricks and a pretty good shot. His sophomore year, he became a stand-still shooter, although he was a pretty good one, his offensive game became one-dimensional. This year, he has no identity at all. He can’t make open shots, he couldn’t beat me off the dribble and he plays poor defense. Braxton Dupree has been a huge disappointment thus far for a team that desperately needs somebody to step up in the post, and is Jerome Burney, anothr player that looked impressive as a frosh, still on the roster?? In fairness, Milbourne, Gregory and Bowie have come along nicely so far, especially Landon who hasn’t been playing his natural position.
    Gary’s philosophies may work if he could develop players, but he hasn’t shown that he can still do that. As far as replacements for GW go, I would like to see MD go after Anthony Grant, head coach of VCU. He’s done a great job down there and he’s young, which I think appeals to players nowadays.

  114. I love how national media always use a picture of Gary where he looks like he’s about to pop. Image…reality…image?

    Ever seen the movie Quiz Show? John Tutauro has a line in it at the end. Speaking about the press, he says “The problem with you guys is that you never leave a guy alone until you leave him alone.”

    We are glimpsing the future here…the new media…24/7…

  115. Guys there’s going to be alot of white noise/static from Balt/Wash media and national media, online, in print, on TV/Radio for the rest of the season. Definitely gonna be a distraction for the coaches & players but they need to stay focused.

    The #1 priority for them is to get another win…and get one quickly like Saturday (so that I don’t have to set something on fire).

    Tommy Jerome Burney was sidelined for about six weeks with a stress fracture in his foot. Been discussed here in other threads. Eric Hayes development has been stunted by moving him from the PG position his Freshman year to off the ball last year and this year.

  116. Here is the complete transcript from the GW interview. I’m not saying it clears everything up but it does put some of his quotes in the proper context.

  117. I have to tell you all that I hate everything about this situation. It’s a fall-off in dignify for Gary, who’s like King Kong shaking his fists at the guys in the biplanes. The media will keep buzzing in with the machine guns and hope he loses his grip and makes a splashy photo op when he’s landed on the sidewalk on 34th Street. Then they’ll move on.

    There’s only one thing that will save Gary, and it’s winning a frickin’ ballgame or two. I was about to say, “How about an away game? Or any game against Carolina, Duke, Wake, or Clemson?” But I realize that’s asking a lot. How about just ANY game? It breaks my heart to see my boy Greivis on the verge of tears….this stuff is part of growing up, son. But Gary’s supposed to get his back for him–his and all his players’. Instead, Gary’s shaking his fist about how the athletic department let HIM down. This sort of thing can’t last long or good kids like our Terps–and they’re just kids, for chrissake–will suffer when they shouldn’t have to. Think of Neal–all he does is reenter a game after getting 15 stitches over his eye, all he does is give his all–and he gets booed. Like I said, I hate everything about this. These kids need to win some games.

    That was a rant. I apologize.

  118. Good point about Neal. He was a two star recruit in 2005:

    Two star guys are not supposed to be significant subs in the ACC. So Neal is playing up to his abilities, and as hard as he can. Not Neal’s fault that he is asked to start. I feel bad for Neal when he comments how hard it is to rebound over taller guys with longer arms. Silly to boo the guy.

    I would stick Dupree and Gregory in there for more minutes, and keep Neal as a much-appreciated role player.

  119. I agree with whoever it was who said this was a problem Debbie Yow should have solved long before now. And not by firing Gary. Somebody needs to be the bigger person and say “Hey, there’s a bigger issue at stake here than whether or not we like each other.” She is ultimately responsible for the department and she should not have let it get this out of hand.

  120. “Q: Was it your decision for him not to put him through that?
    Yes, it was. Why is that wrong? See, you guys are called in. Were you called upstairs? Were you summoned to the athletic director’s office? Why would they call you? I have run a clean program for 20 years. Check my record. I ran a clean program at Ohio State. Check my record. American U. It would have been hard to cheat at American U. We didn’t have a gym. So what’s the purpose of this, to say he didn’t quite say it right. My heart is in the right place. I gave Gilchrist his release so, when it was all over, whenever the hell it would be, he could play. Whatever school, as long as it is not the ACC, I didn’t care. So he went to South Florida. He is playing. So, good for the kid.”

    WTF…I love Radiohead and their song ‘Paranoid Android’, but Gary’s response on the front half of that question is…other-worldly.

    WTF is going on in the athletic department?

  121. Who is John Galt?

  122. Neal deserves nothing but props from Md fans. The kid has given his all for this team. Screw the louts who booed him.

    Look the team is what it is: a mixed bag of usually hard-working, no-quit kids. The program, on the other hand, is on life support. Whether Gary can do the triage to save the patient is an open question. I have my doubts; indeed, have had them since March of last year, and then got them powerfully reinforced after the G’town embarrassment. That being said, it pains me to see Terrapins basketball in such poor health. But I’m not surprised, and can’t understand why anybody is. It’s been apparent for some time.

  123. As I feared at 8:14 this morning, this A.D. thing is getting a life of its own and starting to spin out of control. Gary sounds really angry and ready to blow. I hope as others have said that a victory or two will quiet things down.

    Tommy – Anthony Grant will be 43 in April. Seeing as I am 50 I guess that makes him young.

  124. Kaze: U tryna sell a book?

  125. Tommy – You said that “Gary’s philosophies may work if he could develop players, but he hasn’t shown that he can still do that”?

    I gues the key word in that sentence is “still”. Look what he did with Juan, Blake, Osby, Lonnie B, Drew Nicholas. None, I repeat none of these guys were on anybody’s radar screen. DJ’s arrival was a bust. He could play some D but had virtually no shot….but in the end he did. Even John Gilchrist was a “gym rat” that idolized the terps and dreamt about playing at MD. He was a much better player when he left albeit a bit agrandized with himself.

    GW has helped develop players. That’s indisputable.As for “still”, the jury is still out.

  126. A lot of “player development” also depends on how hard the player is willing to work. Dave Neal is a glittering jewel of an example of a player with limited athleticism that was willing to work his butt off and do what it took to improve. He might have even become slightly better than he is now if in previous seasons he didn’t have to deal with nagging injuries. Don’t get me wrong he wasn’t going to become All ACC but he might have become a tad better, who knows.

  127. DBR,

    Would you put Bowie, Gregory and Milbourne in that same category? They seem to be developing too, probably through hard work as well as good coaching. There was an article in I think in the Sun not long ago how Gregory was upset about his pine time, and worked hard to get himself playing time this year.

  128. Oh, and Mosley too. It’s great to see his progress as well. He must be working hard to come so far in a short couple months. His shot is even better.

    The Terps just got stuck without any big guys at all this season. Normally you would like 3 or 4 of those. But that doesn’t mean we are not seeing good signs in this program, especially in the player development area. The 2 bigs for 2009 should make a difference, even as freshmen, but especially as they develop in the system. Adding Will Regan to that group of bigs would help as well.

  129. What will it take to get rid of Yow? Barring the discussion of whether Gary needs to leave now or not, who in their right mind would want to come work for someone like her? Even before all of this, it was well known that she didn’t operate well with Gary and Ralph. And now, ugh, what a media sh!t storm. Getting a new top tier coach, whenever it is that we will need one, will require some ego stoking from the A.D., not Yow’s ‘my way or the highway’ crap.

    It doesn’t appear that this site is up and running anymore.


    Granted, this is from the athletic department website, but other than her relationship with GW (and I agree this should never have gone public, even if GW made comments first), she appears to have done well by the University.

    What’s Ralph got to complain about? Yow hired him. He came in, did well his first three seasons with someone else’s recruits, kept hinting at leaving and she kept giving him raises. And we got to watch the blue-carpet bowl.

    Maybe she’s hard to work for, but she seems to get results.

  131. Balanced the budget, cleaned up the debt, midwifed championships in 17 sports…. Yow’s not going anywhere.

  132. EdDC Bowie, Gregory and Milbourne have all improved significantly. I really enjoy watching Milbourne, he’s so athletic. And he’s doing well this year considering that he’s playing out of position. I shudder sometimes when I think how good he could be right now if he got more playing time as a freshman. Dino is a classic tweener…probably 2 inches too short to be a PF…and about a step too slow to guard most SF at this level. And Bowie changed his shot over the summer and we’re seeing the results. All three of these kids worked hard in the off season to improve their game and become physically stronger.

  133. Having spent four years in Knoxville, TN where they just pushed out their long time F-ball coach…who (like Gary) was an alum that played for the team he eventually became coach of…this situation we’re in is looking all too familiar.

    *Team wins a NC…then doesn’t come close to that again
    *The team isn’t winning as much.
    *Not getting into the NCAAT (UT wasn’t getting into the Bowl games their fan base felt they should)
    *Assistant Coach Turnover
    *Some recruiting misses (though Tennessee isn’t a hot bed of F-ball recruits)
    *Team has a bad year (or in UMD’s case back-2-back NIT appearances) followed by a good year (UT-Cotton Bowl…UMD back to the NCAAT)
    *Performance drop off in the next season (in UMD’s case the next 2 seasons)

    At this point in the UT story, the big money boosters met with the AD and it was determined a change was needed. Fulmer was told he wasn’t coming back and an announcement was made during the season.

    We’ll see what is next in the Maryland story.

  134. Ralph’s relationship with Yow isn’t a bed of roses either. They have a coexistence but not much beyond that.

    No offense but winning woman’s field hockey championships doesn’t mean squat to the boosters. They care about two sports, basketball and football. Those two sports bring in all the money to support the pet sports. It may not sound nice but that’s the way it is.

    This little stunt the AD pulled won’t help us get a coach. There are already hurdles to getting a top notch coach at UMD. You throw in a less than supportive AD and that makes it even harder.

    Gary made an offhanded comment while getting grilled by some reporters. Dumb yes but not nearly as bad as a thought out process of digging up some documents to discredit your own coach. No matter how highly you think of Yow this was a big time error in judgment.


    This is Katz’s take on the situation. I tend to agree that in this economy, it is even more unlikely to buy out Gary. That is six mill and then you have to pay the new hot shot coach we seem to think will be banging down our door. Those two big recruits give him some leverage as well.

    What is up with JSK? It was always reported he was a really good student.

  136. True, boosters care squat about women’s field hockey championships, but the senior administration cares a ton about balanced budgets and retiring capital debt, especially in these economically parlous times. Love her or hate her (personally, I’m agnostic), Yow’s job at this point in time.

  137. Dropped the “is secure” in reference to Yow’s job. Distracted by the Wake-Duke game. Wake impresses.

  138. You guys have covered most bases, but I’d like to add my two cents:

    Gary’s comments to the media don’t help anyone; if anything, he comes out looking like a big baby, the school receives negative PR, it’s distracting to the players, etc. But if you’re gonna pile on the guy for shooting off at the mouth, please devote equal time to criticizing Yow and her goons in the AD’s office for doing nothing less than the exact same thing. She started this public shouting match several months ago when she was quoted re Tyree Evans’ criminal history. Regardless who you think botched Evans’ recruitment, Yow undermining Gary in the papers was a bush league move, and it never should’ve happened.

    As for the season, I’m finally ready to call it. With Carolina twice, Duke again, Clemson, and Wake on our remaining schedule (not to mention Va Tech, who is starting to play really well), I just don’t see this team winning enough games to be competitive at the end of the year. Bottom line, we can’t score inside (no post presence) and we can’t score outside (worst FG% in the ACC, under 30% from 3, not a single player who can hit a shot from 15 ft out consistently), which leaves us with only one option offensively: pressure the ball, create TOs, score off TOs . . . and pray that the other team has a subpar shooting night. We’ve shown flashes, but it’s tough to maintain that kind of intensity for 40 minutes, and most teams in the ACC, after playing frantic and giving up easy baskets for a half, come out with better focus after intermission. Throw on top of all that what must be a horribly damaged team psyche after a 41 point loss to hated Duke, squandering multiple double digit leads, etc., and you’ve got a lethal combination. I feel awful for these guys, believe me. It sux what they’re going through. But the truth hurts; they’re just not talented enough to win.

    Re Gary’s future, I’m all over the map. I’ve always been one of his most loyal supporters, and I can’t put into words how much I appreciate what he’s done for the school. That being said, I do think he’s reaching the end of his run, and even I can’t defend the lackluster recruiting efforts. A name like Jeff Capel makes my mouth water — young, ACC roots, east coast connections, great success thus far in his career. I think he could really give JTIII a run for his money recruiting the DC area. Even still, I can’t imagine a game at Comcast without Gary marching out of the tunnel and pumping his fist at the student section. It hurts too much. Someone, please, make it stop . . .

Comments RSS TrackBack Identifier URI

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s