What A Choke

There is nothing left to say about this team.  When they lose a game like they did today; you just want to punch something.  Yet another NCAA Tournament will pass without the University of Maryland.   It’s no one’s fault.  It’s everyone’s fault.  We need shooters.  We need rebounders.  What we don’t need is another year in the NIT Tournament.

Why did they bother to beat UNC if they were gonna pull this shit?  Seriously.  They could have saved us the trouble.

Jordan Williams and James Padgett will need to turn the whole program around.  It is Gary’s last chance.  Even I will jump ship if he is not able to get us back to the Tournament next year.

There is a culture of mediocrity that permeates through the entire program. I need to collect my thoughts before commenting further.

I’ll be announcing the new look Turtle Soup later in the week.  What a shame that it can’t be unveiled for the Terps Tournament run.

http://turtle-soup.com

It’s not live yet, but will be soon.

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246 Comments

  1. This is a legitimate question: when will we be good again?

  2. Here’s what I think. I think this team is not done inflicting pain on us. I think the only way we get into the NCAA Tournament is to win the ACC Tournament. I think we win a couple of games, including a second round upset, to get close enough to make us start hoping hard again, start thinking maybe, just maybe….and then they’ll insert the knife into our collective spleens with an inexplicably flat effort and call it a season. It’s not their fault, they just can’t summon up a big game every game, and a big game is what they need to compete with the better ACC teams at home or with the bad ACC teams on the road. Bless their hearts, they are what they are. And so are we.

  3. The state of this program is shameful… choking must-win games against bottom-dwellers, huge collapses multiple times a year, NIT 4 out of 5 years, our best player having the basketball IQ of my grandmother… it’s embarassing… I see nothing positive to look forward to… i’ve been hearing the “wait till next year” and “wait for the new recruits” for years now, but it doesn’t change…

  4. I think the last 3 mins of the game summed up the season pretty well. Fell behind looking awful, mad dash to tie the game (ala UNC win to “save” the season) to get our hopes up, Neal missed a short jumper to take the lead to get over the hump, and then lose it in the end. Yup our a summary of our season in 3 mins

  5. Apprently the lose has taken away my ability to write. Last sentence should have said “Yup, a summary of our season in just 3 mins”

  6. Still can’t spell…I give up.

  7. terps96 spelling > Eric Hayes shooting

  8. Just now had a chance to see the result. :(

  9. GV chokes in the clutch —- in many ways a gifted player, but unfortunately, one of the worst decision making guards I’ve seen in some time.

  10. I don’t think this team shows up in the 1st round of the ACCs. We can’t expect the “us vs them”, the Rodney Dangerfield “We get no respect” to carry them forever. Today was MD’s last and best shot to make the NCAAs. Everything past today has loses a half-life each game. How can we expect a physically and athletically overmatched team to bring 110% each game? None of us could even do that. Do you bring 110% everyday to your job?

    Next year will be more of the same unless a game changer comes to MD. Williams and Padgett are not game changers. At least not that we can tell now (and DBR has constantly warned us about inflating our expectations about those guys). We’ll be in the razor’s edge next year, too. That’s the psychological makeup of the program. MD plays in a tough league, and MD is squarely in the middle of the pack in that tough league.

    So…I can’t see this team winning next week. It’s a lot to ask for. They’ve been through a lot. They’ve given it their best shot. They’ve exceeded most expectations. They just don’t have it.

  11. PLEASE turn down the invite to th NIT

  12. GV appears worse than he is because the other guys cannot score. If the other guys, like Hayes, hit their shots, his assists go up and he doesn’t feel the need to try to take over the game. When he tries to take over, the other teams key on him because they know that he’s trying to do that.

    I don’t think Jordan Williams and James Padgett need to be game changes. They just need to be better than Neal and Milbourne in their post scoring and rebounding. Not a tall order. Milbourne, Vasquez, and Hayes will be seniors and moving Milbourne back to SF will help us in rebounding and defense.

    That said, I will still watch the ACC tourney and cheer on the Terps, as hard as it is to do so. I think 2 wins will get us in because the 2nd win will be against a top team.

  13. Just got back from the game. I’m utterly speechless. A part of me doesn’t even want to watch the ACCT because I’m afraid of another first round bounce. I’ll post more of my thoughts about the game in a little bit.

    I will say this, though – I am really proud of all the Maryland fans who made it down to JPJ. It was wonderful being able to shake a Diamondback newspaper during the intros and whatnot. We really had the BooHoo fans stunned there for a while.

  14. After Diane put VA up by 3, the Terps had the ball. GV was trying to penetrate, but EH was hiding in the corner, not wanting to take the big shot. So GV gives it to Neal who penetrates, is blocked from going further, and then and looks to pass to the top of the key where EH is supposed to be. Plenty of time to tie it and go to OT. But EH was still hiding in the corner. No way should he not be helping GV and Neal out and getting in position for the tying 3. That’s how I saw it anyway. And I’ll bet EH would have sunk it if he had given himself the chance.

  15. Wheels, my hero – I say we win the first round ACC game. Let’s bet bragging rights on it.

  16. Live by Vasquez, die by Vasquez. So great some days, bonehead plays on others.

    I don’t know why I let them get my hopes up every year, only to be crushed.

  17. Kaze…you’re on, my man. What do I have to lose, aside from my honor and integrity? But hell, that’s been wasted a long time ago. I’ll be in the fetal position, which is my learned helplessness posture, for the next week or so.

    On a positive note, Terps laxmen won today at Towson (aka, The University of MD at Towson State University). 4-1 and ranked 6th in the nation. Their game next Saturday is on ESPNU, as was today’s game. They play two home games next weekend. I’m going to see if I can get a weekend pass from Mrs. Wheels and make the trip down 95. At least seeing a Terps team win will take my mind off of a Terps team losing.

    Over the past 5 years, my Terps rooting interest ranking has been football, lacrosse, and hoops…in that order. Sad as that is…

  18. the contrast between the women’s team and the men’s team is stark. the women have talent, but they play with heart — they had a 13-point lead. Lost it. Second half, 12-point lead. Lost it. Came back and won by 11. Against Carolina. In the ACC tournament. In Greensboro. After, as top seed, they had a later game yesterday than Carolina. They replaced two top bigs with a freshman and a JC transfer and are 27-4 and in the ACC title. Go Terps. Beat Puke.

  19. We’re not done yet. Our shots just didnt fall today. Yeah, we got out to a big lead, but that was mainly due to UVA turning the ball over, not us playing well. Our shots will fall on Thursday, whether thats against MIA or NCST. Im not giving up yet. Who knows, maybe just 1 win could get us in. The way other bubble teams are playing, we’re in the same boat as a lot of other teams.

  20. i still hope for the best in this team just cause that’s how I am. I do feel terrible for Gary and some of the players, I just thought they worked really hard and whatnot this whole year. But well see what happens. What worries me is that if they fall into the 8-9 game, and even if they win that verse miami, it’s most likley UNC next. Which who knows what will happen but I am just very very depressed with this. We had such a good chance here…

  21. Oh well this season has turned out just as I and the more reasonable posters on this board thought it would, with another CHOKE to solidify another NIT bid.

    After the UNC win so many (Gerry) were asking where the criticism of Gary was and how great it was that he turned this team around. I was the voice of reason, insisting that the Terps had to follow it up with good play to make the NCAA tourney, otherwise this would be just another lost season.

    Think about those optimistic Terps fans and ardent Gary Williams supporters —

    The Terps had a chance to basically make the NCAA tourney today. They were playing against an absolutely HORRID UVA team that had nothing to play for and had lost 8 out of their last 10 games, had given up the season and quit on their coach. The Terps were coming into this game after having played 3 top ten teams and having a chance to win each of those games. They had turned the corner and Gary had supposedly done a magical coaching job. Gary and his team could not dream up a better scenario — having the chance to make their season with just one win against a terrible team and they failed once again!

    The facts are these — the great coach Gary Williams could not figure out how to beat a terrible UVA team that had nothing to play for today. The Terps could not figure out how to win a game that they desperately needed. This was the chance to show the Terps were back as a force to be reckoned with. Making the tourney 2 out of the last 3 years would be a step up, instead it’s now a PITIFUL 4th trip to the NIT in 5 miserable years.

    This team turned out exactly how most intelligent supporters thought they would — a below aveage ACC team with a losing conference record. A couple of huge wins and a couple of huge chokes. What was unexpected is having the chance to rectify so many wrongs with ONE WIN against a UVA team with a 3-12 conference record. A team that had quit on it’s coach. It was all set up for the Terps BUT…

    THEY CHOKED. Now we can all hear how the Terps blew their tourney chances once again. How they failed to deliver when it really mattered. How it’s a 4th trip to the NIT in 5 years. It’s absolutely pitiful to see this once proud program sink into the depths of mediocrity. There are no excuses this time for the Gary supporters and constant optimists for this team. No rationalizing this loss, no coming up with possible scenarios for the Terps to still make the tourney. No need for any of it, if the Terps can’t beat UVA to save their season then they deserve all the criticism and ridicule that they get, from the fans, the media and anyone else that wants to pile it on.

    This will now go down as one of the worst losses in Univ. of Maryland basketball history. The Terps failed to get this win and turn this program around. The great coach Gary Williams couldn’t lead his team to victory when a victory was essential to this season, this team, the fans, and this program.

    Thank you Terps and most of all thank you Gary Williams for CHOKING and ruining another season…

  22. Padgett and Williams are upgrades and allows Landon to play his natural position BUT if Greivis leaves and Stephenson doesn’t become a Terp, how are the Terps going to score points next season?

    Right now I don’t have an answer to that question.

  23. I feel very bad for the kids. They lost the game in the first half. UVA came out flat as hell and was just awful. We should have been up by about 20 but we didn’t run our offense and again settled for jumpers.

    We made a nice run at the end of the game but didn’t make the plays we needed to in order to win.

    Could we make the tourney without winning the ACC tourney? Yea, but I think it would take us getting to the finals. This team just isn’t consistent enough to put together three games against that kinda’ talent.

    I still like this team, they are who they are though. If GV stays we will be really good next season. Really good. But that doesn’t matter much right now.

    I hope they keep their heads up going into the tourney. I don’t want to go one and done again. We have done way too much of that in the ACC tourney.

    At the end of the game I just closed my eyes and and put my head back. My son came up to me and said “I’m sorry the Terps lost daddy”. It made me realize I can’t take it too seriously. I have my job at a time where many do not. Perspective is hard to come by at the end of the year with my Terps.

    I will be fired up for their next game. Win or lose I am taking a cue from DBR…I’m all in!

  24. Okay follks. I’ve spent the last 3 hours in a deep funk. Sitting through a California PIizza Kitchen BBQ Chick Pizza attempting to make conversation with friends when all I could think about was this game. The result did not shock me, but it just leaves us with so many ‘what ifs’. We missed 3 layups and Bowie clanged back to back FT’s late in the game. Does a team really deserve to win when they do that? The comeback was nice, but if Neal and Hayes can hit 3’s in desperation time, where the hell were they during the 25 minutes where we couldn’t hit a damn shot and showed how mentally weak this team can be when things are not going well. I hoped they had that out of their system, but they went and took a big dog crap on our season.

    However, with talk of ‘jumping ship’ and once again calling for the coach’s head and all the recruiting issues that are going to be roaring back now that they blew this glorious opportunity, I just have one thing to say:

    I LOVE MY TERPS!

    I will always love my Terps. Through the tough times in the late 80’s early 90’s through the first round upsets in ’96 and ’97. Through the glory years and through the Travis Garrison years. Through the ‘Dave Neal started for this team’ year, I will always have faith. I’m extremely depressed and embarrassed, but we will be back. We are one player away. Just one guy. A guy who can hit an outside shot.

    Our team is filled with streaky players and bad decision makers. We have players who cannot adjust to the opposition’s changes. Our coach, as much as I love him, has screwed up. He picked the wrong guys. But you know what?

    I don’t care.

    Gary Williams busts his ass for this team and for our school. He is taking this loss just as bad or worse than we are. I will feel better tomorrow or next week or next month. Unless we make a miracle run in the ACC tournament, GW will be hammered all offseason. Sure he’ll deserve some of the criticism, but some of it he won’t deserve. He coached his ass off this season with a team that had no business in the NCAA conversation when you look at it on paper. When he lost Gus Gilchrist and Jerome Burney had foot issues again, our lack of an inside presence would have most teams winning 10 games at the most.

    Now it’s time for Gary to close on Lance. Get the big recruit in here and this thing gets turned around in a second. If GV stays and we have someone who can take the pressure off him, we are a top 20 team. These inside guys next season will take pressure off of our other guards and let me say this to our returning players:

    GET IN THE GYM AND WORK THIS SUMMER. STAY OUT THERE FOR HOURS AND IMPROVE YOUR SHOT. NOBODY ON THIS TEAM SHOULD BE SLACKING. WE WERE LITERALLY ONE OR TWO SHOTS AWAY FROM WINNING 23 GAMES THIS SEASON. WE ARE CLOSE, SO GO OUT THERE AND IMPROVE.

    For those who think we should not go to the NIT, I say we should. You can go out there and learn. We have young players who need more game experience like Dino Gregory and Sean Mosley (who obviously hit the freshman wall big time). So go out and make us proud and win some games. I’ll be rooting like hell for em every time they take the floor.

    They’ve given me so much for me to abandon them now.

  25. Oh, and one more thing for John. If Gary goes right now, in a few years you’ll be WISHING for mediocrity. Gary didn’t choke, the players he put in the right position did. The shots were there all season long. Blame the recruiting, but don’t blame the coaching.

  26. First of all, let me congratulate John. I can almost guarantee he had half of his comments pre-written before the game, and he was shaking with glee as the clock wound down on the Terps’ season. Man, I wish we had more fans like John. Again, congratulations buddy. You got exactly what you hoped for today.

    aholla3 – Unfortunately, it IS over. Our only hope is to win out, and that’s just not gonna happen, never in a million years. With all 3 of us (MD, Miami, and possibly Va Tech) at 7-9, the Committee has a great excuse to take just 6 teams from the ACC and leave room for their beloved mid-majors. But, really, I agree with a lot of you – we shi* the bed down the stretch, and as a result, we don’t deserve a bid. Plain and simple.

    In my opinion, shot selection killed us today. The 3 got us back in the game late, but the 3 also put us in a position to lose. We were 5-22 from 3 today. 5 FOR 22. This team can’t waste that many shots from long range and expect to win. It’s not our game. When UVA made its run at the end of the first half, we panicked, and leading into the second half we just gave up on the offense. Things spiraled from there. You can point to poor decisions by Vasquez – the quick 3 from the top of the key that killed our run with 5 mins left, along with what may have been the worst game ending possession in the history of hoops, both stand out. But really, we lost because, once again, we couldn’t score. Hayes gave us close to nothing, Milbourne was absent again. Different game, same story.

    Sure, most of us knew this team was playing beyond its capabilities. Regardless, it still hurts. The stars were aligned for us; all we needed to do was beat one of the worst teams in the ACC. Don’t get me wrong; UVA deserves credit. No surprise, their lone sr. stepped up big in his final game, and as Elmore pointed out, this game was was their NCAA Tournament. Despite their record, it was no gimme. However, the good teams win these games. The pretenders end up at home on the couch. Do the math.

  27. Good work, Gregg. I’ve drunk a lot of Stoli in the company of two supportive daughters the last few hours and I gotta say you done good. It ain’t like these kids didn’t try, and it ain’t like we have a coach who mails it in. Greivis will stay, a couple of biigger kids will join the team, maybe we’ll catch lightning in a bottle with Born Ready…however it works out, we’ll be there. And Wheels, we’ll win a game or two next weekend so that we can work up a little glimmer of hope before it’s dashed again. I’d rather root for Shakespearean Shellwearers than anybody anywhere.

  28. In case anyone was wondering. If we have any hope of a miracle, we need FSU to beat Virginia Tech on Sunday. If that happens, we remain the 7 seed and will play NC State in the first round of the tournament then would avoid UNC in the Quarters.

  29. it is unreal how these few seasons seem to come down to initial disappointment followed by moments of brilliance, and then a gut-punch to end the season. This loss was bad and I saw it coming, just sitting there, before we played wake. Despite all my optimism after the good games against unc and duke I felt this would happen. It blows.

    I will agree with many comments on this board though, that this year feels different – I can actually say I’m happy w/the way this season went overall, despite today’s kick to the groin. We had absolutely NO size whatsoever all season long and we hung w/the toughest teams in the country. This team, unlike the garrison/gilchrist teams busted their asses and cared – you could see it.

    I can’t get past the thought of what could’ve been if Dupree had stepped up and just given us 6 pts and 4-5 boards a game – and provide some kind of presence in the middle. He had an unreal opportunity (espec when burney went down)and let it get away He has been as gutless as they come. I mean, how bad must he have been in practice if Gary didn’t get him any PT when we were getting outrebounded by wake by 20?? I hope the new guys coming in next year can give us something right away bc if they can’t we’ll be in the same situation.

    Finally – I gotta say this board kicks ass. Good work Jeremy/Gregg and everyone that posts here.

  30. Sigh… I admire the fire and passion that Gregg has and the perspective of Ricksterps; I’m also not as doom and gloom as John, but lets look at the facts:

    1. Gary is 64 years old and has two years remaining on his contract. Even if he wanted to keep coaching past 66, would the MD athletic department issue him an extension when we all know how the two parties feel toward each other

    2. Gary is not getting bought out of his current deal. We think the AD tried to do that earlier this year and didn’t due to the public backlash and the tough economy we’re living in.

    We’re all upset w/ the “lack” of talent on the current team and agree that where MD is located that we should have a stable of 4-5 star recruits every year. The bad news is, the recruiting situation isn’t likely to improve in the next 4-5 years. Who is going to come here knowing that Gary only has two more years left? That effects the classes of 2010 and 2011, and 2012. Our future is on shaky ground at the moment and if Gary can’t get some good, big time recruits in here, then things might actually get worse before they get better.

  31. Wouldn’t we rather see UNC in the quarters than Duke?

  32. After some thought, I think the reason this game was so upsetting, to me at least, is that I let Maryland get my hopes up. They played like a miserable team most of the season, and then overachieved and played well the last few games (before today). I’m mad at myself for getting fooled, because let’s be real, this was never a good team. Multiple blow-outs and collapses. They only beat UNC because of a career game by Vasquez. Overachievement in a few games and we got excited. If they’d have just lost to UNC and gone quietly, then it wouldn’t be as painful. It’s impossible not to get my hopes up every year when they start playing better, and that won’t change… I just hope the heartbreak does.

    I’ll give Gary kudos for getting them to play better at the end of the season (we stopped completely giving up in games). But I also seriously fault Gary for not getting them to beat a lowly UVA team that, whether we are overachieving or not, we had no business losing to. Yes, we missed a million shots and Gary doesn’t control that, but I felt most of the game was an overall poor effort. We played VERY sloppy and didn’t seem as prepared as we have for other games. How do you not get the kids up for this game? All season I’ve questioned a lot of the decisions Gary has made rotation-wise, but I suppose with this team it’s just choosing the lesser of evils.

    I’ll also give Gary major kudos for Dave Neal. He really turned the kid into a reasonable player who can hold his own against much bigger opponents. Proof that Gary can still develop players, and a very fine coaching job that I’d hope you all agree with. On the other hand, I criticize Gary for not doing a good job of developing the rest of the team… and by that I mean any of our guards besides Vasquez, none of whom can shoot the ball to save their lives. (Also, I don’t think any coach could improve Vasquez’s decision making, he’s just too boneheaded.)

    And think about this… in the late 90’s, we weren’t complacent with just getting to the sweet 16 each year. Now we’re not complacent with not getting into the tourney at all. The program has turned into a culture of losing. I’m not okay with this, and it shows a clear decline in the program. I don’t like saying “oh, well, we had a good effort, maybe next year.” I’m not saying we should can Gary. But I do think he needs to be criticized where warranted. If we really do have an above-average recruiting class coming in, then we can give him a year to see what he can do with it. But things need to change… quickly.

  33. I second your comments Gregg. Although what you refer to as the “Travis Garrison years” I refer to as the “Caner-Medley years”. Same difference I guess.

    I don’t think you can compare this year’s team to the past few failures. This year’s team did not dissapoint. They gave a valiant effort with what they had and it came up short. We had basically the same cast as last year plus Mosley and minus Gist and Boom. To say we achieved more with less than last year is an understatement.

    Gary is one of us. HE IS ONE OF US DAMNIT! He played for the school, he graudated from the school, he bleeds the Terps colors. Debbie Yow is not one of us. If anyone thinks some other coach will come in here and do a better job, well than in my opinion you are an ignorant fool. I hate to say that about a differing opinion but no one can convince me otherwise.

    To turn down the NIT would be just foolish. With so many underclassmen on this team, it would be invaluable experience for the younger players.

  34. Tourney???

    What’s the point?

    At best we’re a 9 seed, we go up against a coin-flip team. I do recognize that the 8-9 game is a true toss-up, but I can’t honestly give ourselves that kind of odds.

    Or worse, a ten seed (which historically has a better than 50-50 shot against the 7 seed) and then we really have our hopes up right?

    Things do need to get worse before it gets better. That’s just the way things are. TerpNation needs to look in the mirror, from Debbie Yow to Gary to every assistant coach to every player every booster, every alumnus every FAN and realize that we can no longer fluff up a coin-flip record and powder-puff non-conference games to backdoor our way into a match-up with a mid-major that actually belongs in the NCAA tourney, and played like it wanted to earn its way there.

    The irony of all this is that the tournament opened up to at-larges because Maryland was the best team left out; because teams of lower caliber from other conferences got in. Now, we’re in the position of begging our way in over other teams that deserve it more than we do.

  35. Gregg you may be right, there aren’t many coaches who could come in and take over this Maryland team that plays in one of the toughest conferences in the country year in and year out. It’s just tough when you have to take a step back and look at the reality of the state of this program. Everyone gets tired of hearing about 4 NIT’s in 5 years because it’s not something anyone wants to accept but they are the facts barring a miracle next week. Gary has recruited and coached these teams the last 5 years and has to ultimately accept responsibility for their results. And I hope there is no Terp fan that accepts being a perennial NIT team, a team that hopes to squeak into the NCAA tourney once in awhile, a team that is justifiably ridiculed by the “experts” for blowing a golden opportunity today. It’s amazing that in 7 short years this program has gone from one that expects to win to one that just hopes to be good sometime in the future.

    And CT you are 100% correct unfortunately. I actually have been writing similar posts and have felt the same way since last year. I wrote the same posts after the miracle Carolina win, seeing the obvious that this program had not turned around and this team was destined to falter again in the end. I had a bad feeling that they would choke away this game today even when all the evidence suggested otherwise —

    Playing a terrible team with an inferior coach to the great Gary Williams, having everything set up almost perfectly for the Terps in this past week, believing GV, Hayes, and Gary that this team had so much heart and was ready to finally win a season saving game and for once come through in the clutch — even with all of the signs pointing to a win it was painfully obvious that it wasn’t going to happen. GV, Hayes, Milbourne, Bowie would all disappear when it mattered most, Gary wouldn’t be able to adjust to the pressure of this game and make the right adjustments, and the Terps would ultimately lose to an inferior team and coach and therefore choke away another season.

    Contrary to some opinions it isn’t pleasurable to see this once proud program continue it’s steep decline —- but is just the result of the facts that are painfully obvious to anyone who examines them closely…

  36. I held off posting opting to see where the “true grit” was on this blog. Gregg, CT, Kaze, Eddie and ever Terps – R-Us gave us a real good wrap on the season……thus far.

    It ain’t over yet. Yeah, I know……here’s GERRY the enternal optimist. You bet. I feel like most of you…..we got let down again. But, that’s our problem…..we elevated our expectations beyond this teams current capability. We let a good win over UNC and some close losses buoy our hopes.

    Speak of which….. our (continued) hopes rest on a realignment. If we have any last ditch hopes of getting to the dance this year it must be with significantly reduced PT for Hayes, Mosely and AB. They have had their chance and all showed flashes of promise but that’s all they were…….flashes in the pan. I hope Tucker stays with the team but it wouldn’t surprise me if he left. All Tucker needs is a show of confidence and more PT, which he’s earned. AB can’t finish and is a fundamentally flawed FT shooter. Hayes is a nice kid but he STILL can’t create his own shot. He’s had 3 effing years to even “slightly resemble” Steve Blake and we can now put that to bed. Please make no more references to that whatsoever. Mosely is another good kid who can play some D but is an absolute liability on offense.

    Let GV and Neal run wild….. until the others scream for the ball. Were it up to me I start Neal, GV, Tucker, Dino and Dupree…..that’s right Braxton Dupree in the ACCT. Before you criticize that lineup …..think about it a bit…..visualize it. It ain’t all that bad. We lose no points by having EH and SM out of the game and perhaps a break away layup from AB—-as long as no one’s on him.

    I have saved my staunches criticism for one of the more respected Soupers and that’s Jeremy. Long before the game was decided and long before our Terps kept scrapping and clawed their way back to a tie at 64 all, Jerremy crapped out. To my that was a symbolic gesture, unsettling in it’s time. You just don’t expect that from “host”. Gregg makes no bones of his chagrina and giref but always leaves with a glimmer of hope and support. We don’t need and don’t want a reconstituted Turtle Soup. We’ll deal with the issues at hand but these Terps are our Terps and this Coach is our Coach. They deserve more from us than showing quit before the final score.
    They came back, for us, and some of us weren’t there for them.

    Sure, this looks like hyperbole….maybe so….but I’m sure I speak for more than a few on this site…..”we expect more from the host”. Had we not fought back to tie the game his remarks might have been more appropriate.

    I remain appreciative for all the Turtle Soup has provided us. It’s been a “life preserver’ for die-hard Terps BB fans. Let’s keep it that way.

    I’m not going to let, what I believe to be, a lone mis-step by the host to derail my support of him and this site.

    Please accept this in the spirit it’s intended.

    Go Terps

  37. So let’s see. Before Gary we were on NCAA sanctions. Before the sanctions we had some of the most talented teams in the ACC through the 70’s and the early 80’s. But we had NEVER, EVER made it past the Sweet Sixteen. Gary comes in builds, builds, eventually reaching the apex. The “once proud program” that you guys refer to was brought here by one guy. Before him THERE WAS NO proud program. NC State and Virginia had “prouder” programs than we did. What proud program? You mean the “Best ACC game ever”? We lost that game and didn’t make the tourney. The Buck and Albert years? All that talent, one ACC Tourney Title, no deep runs in the tourney. That’s it. So what precedent did Gary have to fall back on when he came here? To bring back the program from sanctions to also-rans? Let’s say Gary didn’t go to our school. He found out after he was hired that the “death penalty” was coming down from the NCAA. Gary is outta here before he coaches one game! As would have any other coach worth a salt. We have missed the tournament 4 times now in 5 years. We have been CLOSE each year. If this was the 1980’s we would’ve made it EVERY YEAR we missed it in the 2000’s. College basketball has changed. A Maryland can lose to a Morgan St. A Boston College can lose to a Harvard. Many people are saying we are under-achieving. Well I’m old enough to remember that before Gary, we were the UNDERACHIEVERS OF THE ACC. You guys don’t remember Lefty’s teams? Strugggling to beat lower seeds such as Navy and Chatanooga? Never, ever beating a higher seed, something Gary has done numerous times? I just can’t understand the logic.

  38. After reading the comments over the year here, I can honestly say that 99% of us do not think it’s okay to be an NIT team. None of us just shrug it off and say ‘hope for next year’. The reason everyone is always so fired up is because we want and expect better from this program. We are struggling and we all have different opinions on who and what is to blame, but we are the 2002 National Champions and we deserve to be a contending team year in and year out.

    I am confident we can get back to that even if Gary is on the downside of his career. But next season will be key. The 2 (maybe 3) guys coming in and losing just one senior (and I will miss Dave Neal) need to get this program back on track. I believe we can do that and I’ll be just as heartbroken if we do not.

    Don’t be so hard on Jeremy guys. I’ve known and rooted with the guy for the past 16 years. He’s a bit over the top right after games, but in the end, he is and will always be a Terps die hard even if sometimes he’s ready to expect the worst and jump off the roof if they lose.

    We all won’t be satisfied until we are Final 4 contenders year in and year out once again. I have doubts that the Orioles, Wizards, and even my free spending Redskins can be title contenders in the future, but I really have no doubt that it’s just a matter of time before the Maryland Terrapins are back in that spot.

  39. The fact is that none of us know what will happen in the future. MD could go on a run and win out. Could happen.

    Of course, MD could lose in the first round of the ACCs. Could happen.

    Gary could turn the program back around. Could happen.

    MD could let Gary go at the end of his contract, and a new coach could come in and take MD back to the top. Could happen.

    Of course, Gregg could be right and no one but Gary could lead MD back. Could happen.

    That’s why everyone here, everyone, is so upset. We can’t reasonably predict what will happen, and that’s not what any of us…any of us…thought would happen after Gary and MD climbed the mountain top.

    To be here…in this same psychological space…year after year…is what upsets all of us. No one likes “could”.

    So now we have 7 months of angst, renewed hope, and that distinctly odd MD mix of optimism and pessimism. I’m looking forward to watching the Terps play in the lax Final Four this year in Boston. I’m looking forward to seeing MD play at Cal this fall in football. Then I’ll throw up when minight madness starts. That’s what MD hoops is all about!

  40. Wheels — nice phrase, “distinctly odd MD mix of optimism and pessimism.” None of my non-Maryland friends understand it…

  41. Also known as hoping for the best and expecting the worst. Stoicism, too.

  42. Interesting things coming from the Terps after this latest choke to effectively end another season —

    Vasquez and Neal talked in their postgame quotes about not everyone showing up ready and playing hard in this game. That is incredibly disturbing to think there are players on this team that weren’t ready for this game iand trying their best.

    Another note about Gary and getting his team ready to play. There is no doubt that Gary Williams is one of the best coaches ever when in an underdog role. When his teams face Duke, UNC or other top teams he convinces the players that it’s them against the world and they come out playing with the fire and passion instilled by their coach.

    BUT that doesn’t work against teams such as UVA. Using that same speech doesn’t work when the Terps’ players surely felt they were the better team today. As has happened many times in recent years when the Terps are supposed to win and need to win a game against a lesser opponent they have failed miserably.

    Please guys again let’s just examine the facts —- the Terps choked today plain and simple. They lost to a terrible team that had a 3-12 conference record and had lost 8 of their past 10 games. Think about that for a second, a Terps team with everything to gain couldn’t not come through and there is absolutely no excuse for that.

    Gary couldn’t figure out how to adjust to a simple zone defense. Seeing GV, Hayes, Milbourne struggling so badly against the zone has to fall back on Gary, these are juniors who should be able to adjust with ease but they had no clue.

    Another incredible quote from Vasquez. The junior star player admitted he had no clue what play the Terps were running at the end of the game or even what defense Virginia was playing. That is mind boggling to hear and once again where does the blame lie when your team is unprepared to make in game adjustments or run the proper plays to win games?

    There will be much debate to follow as to what steps this program needs to take to ascend from the depths of mediocrity. For now the FACTS will have to serve as the guide —

    4 NIT trips in 5 years. Several games of blowing big leads and wilting down the stretch.

    In the last 2 years two of the worst losses and chokes in the history of Terps basketball. 2007 loss to Clemson at home after blowing a 20 point second half lead.. 2008 loss to Miami after blowing a 17 point lead.

    And of course todays choke job against Virginia which had all the elements. Blowing a big early lead, letting a terrible player dominate and win the game, blowing a golden opportunity to salvage this season, terrible play down the stretch when the game was on the line, an inability to beat an inferior team led by an inferior coach.

    And again please Gary supporters tell me where it’s OK to fail in your job for 4 out of 5 years. Like it or not the goal of a college team is to make the NCAA tourney and at least compete for a National Championship. Gary WIlliams has failed to even have his team qualify for this chance in 4 of the last 5 years. I challenge anyone to find a list of coaches who have done this poorly in the last 5 years and are still among the highest paid coaches in the land. Please put together a list of 5 year failures that still have a job, much less one that is paid so well when compared to most of their peers.

    Hmmmm it is going to be a VERY short list I bet…

  43. Tough loss, but ready to move on to see what we can do in the ACCT. At least the wrestling team won the ACC today, and the WBB team is on the brink. Just wish I could get more fired up about MBB right now but I am afraid to get my hopes up for what will likely be a loss. I truely hate feeling this way.

    Go TERPS

  44. Guys like john: You must be 21 years old. Are you honestly telling me that Gary is failing at his job? Are you out of your mind? 5 years. Is that a long time? I guess so. I guess it’s a recruiting classes duration and then some. So this marks the worst five years of Gary’s tenure. But that tenure includes, as has been stated already, RECREATING THIS PROGRAM. I’m not insanely pro-Gary, or anti-Gary, but this isn’t the Ravens, or the Redskins, this is the University of Maryland, and this is Gary Williams; this isn’t about not making the tournament a few years in a row, or not living up to your expectations, this is a college program going through a rough spell. That’s it. So, fucking what? I’m here, on this blog, so obviously I care, but do you really want Gary Williams to be fired? Honestly? He’s given his all to this school, to these teams, to these players, do you really want him gone? Are you that callous? Is your memory that short? You talk about these players choking as if they’re pixels in a video game. these are human beings, young, in some cases, teenage human beings. Shit happens. MD isnt’ gonna be dominant year in, year out. Today sucked. It hurt me worse than maybe any loss I can remember, ever. (Except maybe Duke in the final four in 2001) But MD + Gary is like your mother and your brother. You start with love, and the rest you can’t control. I hope guys like John jump ship. We don’t need ’em. I’m proud of our team; we had a pretty good year. And it’s not over yet…

  45. Some of you have tagged last nights loss as a “choke”. Totally inappropriate regardless of what GV had to say about some players not coming ready to play.

    It wasn’t a choke it was a loss. It would be self-immolatioin for a “team” to come into a game like this …….unprepared. More appropriately, when you just “have to” win a game, you subject yourself to unregulated anxiety. Some ballers can play their way out of that after they hit a layup or J, steal a pass or get a big rebound. Others simply can’t. AB, Mosely and EH good examples. EH is totally useless at the point. For a PG to not be able to create a shot is unacceptable. Again, I like these kids and as I said previously they have shown flashes of improvement…but that’s all they were.

    John, Interestingly, some outsiders would use the term “choke” but not always a fan. You even opened with “Interesting things coming from the terps.” Why not “our guys, our team” . You’re very vocal about your criticism of the team and GW. That’s OK and that’s your opinion. You rarely show any love for either.

    They lost and they are probably as heartbroken as we are. There’s plenty of blame to throw around but fact is,,,,, we just don’t have the scorers. We have plenty of shooters. The D wasn’t as good as it has been lately but it wasn’t bad awful either. We do seem to struggle with closing the half and closing the game. It just looks like no one wants to or dares to put the ball up. Accept of course Neal and GV and against that backdrop….let em fire away. GV’s last shot was terrible but without his 19 points and Neal’s 3 we lose by 20 .

    Do you beat yourself up (and others) when you get a traffic ticket? He you were speeding…..pay the ticket and move on.

    Look, we all feel terrible. I want our guys to make dance and if there can be a “Miracle on Ice” there can be a Miracle on the Court too. Never say Never. And, if they play in the NIT……I’d like to see them play. There’s hundreds of teams that won’t even get to do that. Good teams with heartbreasking defeat along the way as well.

    This team, this program and GW ain’t finished yet. There’s no losers here. I know you have seen them play their hearts out. No way should they have beaten UNC or been as close to WF and a few others.

    Give a cheer for the ole Alma Mater and drown your sorrows.

    We live for another day.

    Go Terps

  46. My thoughts on the season. We are not as talented as some teams and undersized against more teams. I do think the guys give us what they got. BOWIE good stretch in the middle of the season. terrible lately If he doesn’t slash to the basket with confidence he is a liability. MOSELY love his basketball smarts and effort will be a valuable terp for next three years. TUCKER good offensive player who will always be judged on whether his shot falls. TUCKER AND MOSELY need to handle the ball better. HAYES second in the acc in assist to turnover ratio. He is being judged too hard. Iwant him on my team and in the game. The only calming point to our scatter brained guard. GV love him or not hate but more WHY GV. DID YOU MAKE THAT PASS OR TAKE THAT SHOT. You have to love his passion. During a 2 minute stretch you can scream GREAT PLAY GV, GREAT HUSTLE GV AND THEN THAT WAS STUPID GV. MILBURN smooth athlete who needs to be tougher. NEAL [ THE MAN ] an average player who plays very tough. and last our COACH GARY WILLIAMS this might be his best coaching in awhile. But he is on the balance sheet. It is too late now to be better at recruiting. I agree with an earlier post. he did not know how to attack the zone or get his players to do it. Either way thats his job. I love Gary. I even got a Gary pin. That says IN GARY WE TRUST. wear it at every game since i got it. I even wore it saturday, watching the game on tv. But the bottom line is Gary is the captain of the ship it is his ship . And he can’t stop it from sinking. your thoughts

  47. RT, interesting perspective as flawed as it may be. Like it or not in the world of college basketball 5 years is an eternity. Coaches are fired and hired based on 1 or 2 year struggles with regularity. 5 years of struggle is not a fluke or an aberration. The program is in a severe downturn not just a “rough patch”.

    That is why Gary has been given so much leeway. Again you use harsh words to critics like myself but have yet to provide any FACTS to back up your feelings. Once again please give a list of coahces at major college basketball programs that play in premier conferences that have failed to even qualify for the NCAA tourney in 4 out of 5 years but are still getting paid as though they are producing results, or even have a job.

    Are some of my criticisms of Gary and the Terps over the top or redundant? OF COURSE they are — it is with the hope that fans look at the facts instead of being biased because they are Terps fans, without the ability to step back and look at the reality of this program.

    The choke, loss, blowing a golden opportunity whatever you want to call it is such a significant step back. Finding a way to come through against a horrid opponent would have gone a long way to turning things around — the joy of beating rival UVA, closing out the regular season with a WIN, getting to 8-8 in conference play, ostensibly putting the Terps in the NCAA tourney, and renewed faith in Gary that he can still lead this team — unfortunately with another loss all of those opportunities were wiped away and now it’s another season of hearing all of the experts scoff at the Terps and commenting on their blowing this game, hearing the leaders of the team in Neal and GV turn on their teammates, and watching the Terps lose again in a game they simply had to win.

    How much of a leash do you give Gary now? Is 5 out of 6 NIT’s too much, 6 out of 7?
    There has to be a limit somewhere doesn’t there? Or is it just “hey he won a title 7 years ago so he can coach forever even though the program is wallowing in mediocrity with no promise of a turnaround in the near future”

    I guess everyone has their own opinions on what should happen…

  48. Not that I want to be considered a downer, but I have to agree with Chrs0049. I feel like MD will be stuck in this position for a while. It is a tough situation, you can’t throw Gary out the door (I don’t want that) because it will be messy, and most likely make things worse. That said though, Gary is 64 now and only has a few years on his contract. How are they going to be able to convince a guy like Buie to come to Maryland with the possibility that after his freshmen year Gary will either retire, or not be welcomed back? I feel like if they had been able to make it to the tournament and possibly win a game or two the AD would have been forced to give Gary an extension, making future recruiting much easier.

  49. John, you miss the point when it comes to us ‘Gary supporters’. Nobody is saying it’s okay to fail at your job for 4 or 5 years (though I would constitute failure as losing 20 games a year). We all are aware that Gary has ‘failed’ to keep our program among the elite and nobody is happy with that.

    However, in today’s impatient world, you have to be careful what you wish for. If this was a Matt Doherty situation, you get rid of the coach. But because it’s a guy who has done so much for the program, you give him a bit of leash in my opinion (especially since we haven’t hit rock bottom), at least enough to see him to his retirement.

    For the record, I don’t believe that nobody but Gary can get the program back on track ever again. I just think that in the near future, with the current recruiting issues, it’s better to keep him on the job until he decides he’s ready to retire, which should be within the next 5 years or so. That’s just a guess. If you make a move now, you are starting from the bottom and Maryland doesn’t seem ready to make a push for an established coach, especially financially at this time. Therefore, we would hire some young guy looking to make his mark and while that would be a good idea when Gary retires, I don’t think it’s the right move now. I think we need to be back as an NCAA Tournament team before that happens. It would be the wrong move at this time. But that’s just my opinion!

  50. Lunardi was just on Sportscenter and he revealed his last 4 out/first 4 in. He had us as the 4th team out right now. I think 2 wins would get us in.

  51. Well-stated Gregg. NOBODY is happy with the last 5 years. The argument that Gary only thrives as an underdog is utterly ridiculous. The reason we have the 3rd best ACC record in Gary’s tenure is precisely because he beats the teams he should beat. How else can you compile that record by only winning the occasional big game? Yesterday’s game was not some monumental upset or choke job. They happen ALL THE TIME in college basketball. A better team losing on the road against a conference bottom-dweller. It happened to bubble teams Providence and Cincinnati just this week. Xavier lost at Richmond just yesterday. LSU lost at Mississppi St. Las Vegas listed the Terps as 2-point favorites. That is virtually a toss-up game. The game was tied with a minute left. Vegas usually predicts these games better than 100 Seth Davis’ and Doug Gottliebs.

    But I’m telling you be careful what you wish for. I can give you examples of tons of coaches who were considered the “face of the program” and retired, were pushed out, or left for another job. Those schools 9 out of 10 times go into a deep funk of rotating coaches and no success. Just a few pop off the top of my head:

    Digger Phelps
    Bobby Knight
    Jim Valvano
    Terry Holland
    Bobby Cremins
    Ray Meyer
    Guy Lewis
    John Cheney
    John Calipari
    Nolan Richardson
    Pete Carrill
    Bob Huggins
    John Thompson
    PJ Carlesimo
    Lou Carnesseca
    Jerry Tarkanian
    MIke Montgomery

    To reiterate how hard it is to make the NCAA Tourney, Arizona and Kentucky will probably miss out this year. That breaks the 2 of the 3 longest consecutive tourney streaks left out there. About 5-6 years ago, there were 10 or 11 teams with long streaks going. Now there is only Kansas with 19. The next closest is Duke with 13. There are 0 schools with even 12 after that.

  52. By no measure has Gary “failed” at his job. The fact is he has yet to have a bad season. Has the team lived up to expectations that Gary got us use to? No.

    You are also using static analysis. Things have changed a lot in the ACC over the last few years. When we were making the tourney every year there wasn’t the competition there is now. Early this decade who was any good in the ACC? You had Duke, Wake maybe NC State and then a rotation of teams that would be good occasionally. UNC was in the dumper so we didn’t have to worry about them.

    Now we have a lot of good programs. Duke, UNC, Clemson, Wake look like they are here to stay. Then you have FSU, Va Tech and Miami that are starting to take a step up. It is a grinder now.

    Gary made this an elite program. That is the funny thing about all of this. He brought this on himself by being dumb enough to win the NCAA championship. That is what took us from being a good program to an elite one.

    Gary deserves to go out on his own terms. I doubt he will coach past his current contract. That leaves three more seasons. We will have a good team next year, maybe a really good team. He has some good recruits in the pipeline so things should look up.

    We all know what happened this season, he whiffed on all his inside players. It is the singular reason why we didn’t perform better. We overcame that for a lot of games but you can’t keep winning when you get out boarded by 15 reb a game.

    Gary is our coach and will be for the next few seasons. You are tilting at windmills going on about firing Gary. It just isn’t going to happen.

    And one other thing, the season ain’t over. I may have to do some time down at the Myrtle Beach jail now with the UVA grads ragging me but other than that I am still excited about our Terps.

  53. Saw this coming a mile away. I turned the game off with 18 minutes left, which is the only reason I’m alive right now. I feel for those who suffered through.

    This game was not about shooters or talent or recruiting…It was about intestinal fortitude and breaking the bonds of the past — start out great, then lose easy games so we give up, then win big game so we have hope, then end year only needing 1 win to dance, usually against the worst team in the league, which we lose of course meaning that we have to greasp onto an ACC tourney win, which means the Terps will bow out in the first round.

    Unfortunatley, we have no intestinal fortitude and have not broken the bonds of the past. I know 17 people who predicted this season to a tee, before the first game started back in November. Oh well.

  54. I posted this at the tag end of the previous post, in response to the cries that GW and the Terps choked against a “horrid team.”

    “I’m taking a contrarian stand here. UVA’s incredibly active zone is what did in the Terps. Nearly every shot was contested on the perimeter, forcing MD out of rhythm and into rushed shots. It was one of the best zones we’ve faced all season. Our press was adequate but our own zone stunk. I couldn’t count the number of times a defender was faked off his feet or recovered late, only to foul the three point shooter. 7-9 is about where I thought this team would end up; no, I thought it would be worse, something like 6-10 or 5-11, and said so several times on previous threads. Without quality bigs, we were behind the eight ball the entire season. UVA merely added another exclamation mark to that obvious fact. That the team almost broke .500 is a tribute to GW’s coaching, and this from someone who, for the last two seasons, has been saying it’s time for him to start enjoying his retirement on account of piss poor recruiting. Bottom line: this game was more a case of UVA winning, rather than MD losing. Today, at least, the better team won.”

  55. I meant “previous thread.”

  56. I like being a Terps fan because I know what to expect. We’ll get beat in the first round, especially if we play NC State, who would limit Vaz to about 4 points this time. Lose the first game of the NIT at Comcast to a small school nobody has ever heard of. Maybe we’ll get lucky and barely win the game, but then we’ll get blown out in the next game with a middle-of-the-road Big East team. Maybe we can get blown out by Georgetown again? Next year, we basically will have the same team back. The freshmen big men will probably need a whole year to develop. So we’ll beat most of the cupcakes, but lose to a small local school, get a good win but get blown out a few times in early tournaments. Go 7-9 in the ACC with a big upset, but also some inexplicable losses, go back to the NIT and lose early.

  57. Just one note on the ‘relevance’ factor. We know we are pretty much toast this year, but on CBS right now, they just put us on a graphic with 3 other teams in an ‘In or Out’ segment.

    Sure, they are saying we are out, but the fact that we remain on a fixture in those graphics proves once again, we are an established program (which is going through a tough time)

  58. Fire Gary Williams. When are you people going to learn?

  59. John, There are quite a few coaches in the ACC alone who have been at their gigs with much less success than Gary in the past four-five years, and haven’t been run off their campuses or left. And these coaches haven’t done for the program of university a fraction of what Gary has done.
    – Leonard Hamilton has been at FSU since 2002, this will be his first trip to the tourney
    – Seth Greenberg has been at VaTech since 2003 and went to the NCAA…what once in 2006,
    – Frank Haith has been at Miami since 2004 and had 1 NCAA tourney bid and 1 losing season with no postseason,
    – Sid Lowe has been at NCSt for 3 years 1 NIT bid, probably an NIT bid this year
    – Paul Hewitt following a NCAA runner-up season hasn’t been to the tourney 3 out of the past 4 years.
    So there’s five coaches in our conference alone with recent results worse than Maryland who have not lost their jobs. And again considering that 7 years ago we won the national championship even comparing Gary to these coaches makes me sick.

  60. Gregg…with all due respect…having MD in the “in or out” graphic again does not make MD relevant. It makes MD mediocre.

    I’m always fascinated by the “can’t get rid of Gary now because of X” type arguments. With his contract expiring soon and his age, the end is near. Now, next year, the year after…whenever it is…the continuity in the program will come to an end. Recruiting will suffer his last year and into the next year. That will happen whenever he leaves. That argument is a wash.

    The only way this program gets continuity is for Gary to name his successor NOW. Just like Ralphie did. If Gary is the program and cares about what he built, will he selfishly watch it go down the drain? Or will he name his coach in waiting and help ease the transition? To me, that’s the only way this thing gets better. Either that or Yow and Mote rip the bandaid off and let that bad year or two happen whenever they happen.

    Those are the two choices for the future of the program that Gary built. How does he want his legacy to stand? In tact or in tatters? Hopefully, when this season mercifully ends, he will sit back and take a long view of what he built. Hopefully, he can lure a good coach in waiting to be the associate HC for the next year or two. I don’t know who that person is, but I don’t see it on the bench now. It ain’t Lefty Jr. It ain’t Booth. Maybe Lonergan or Patsos come back for a specified time period. If he can’t name a coach in waiting, then MD better start saving up now to get a bigtime coach. I’d go after Dixon or Miller.

    At this point, let them play out the string. NIT bid is most likely.

  61. I disagree that not having a big man is the biggest problem on this team (just the second biggest problem). Yes, having a big man would give us more points on the inside, more rebounds, less second chance points for the opponent. But the truth is, we were just a couple of wide open shots from beating Duke, Wake, and UVA. Our biggest problem is a complete lack of shooting ability by every guard not named Vasquez. They all play like scared little boys and can’t hit anything. I can’t even count the number of games in which we had a 2-18 3-point game. Yes, having a true big man would decrease the need for so many outside shots, would decrease the pressure on our guards to hit them, and would pull defense against us inside and give us more looks. But we miss so many wide-open easy shots (and don’t give me the “gary doesn’t take the shots” because he recruited them, trained them, and should be busting their asses and day and night if they aren’t hitting shots). You simply cannot win in college basketball these days without consistently hitting the three, and I’m not convinced we have the guards who can hit the 3 consistency or in the clutch, big man or no big man. This is actually very surprising to me, because historically I always thought Gary did a better job developing his guards than his big men, but it is not true lately (probably due to simple lack of talent at guard). Who knows, maybe Hayes will have a Dave Neal senior season (I still can’t believe I’m saying that). This is why I don’t see much hope in next year, unless we can get LS. I really hope I’m wrong.

    RT — Just because some people think Gary should be criticized or canned does not mean they love this team less than you or they should “jump ship.” We all love this team and want them to win. I can’t believe there is a person here who doesn’t appreciate what Gary has done for this school and will grateful to him forever for bringing us a title. I still wear my Garyland shirt, and I don’t think he should be axed just yet, but I do think Gary should be criticized for the job he’s done the last few years because it has not been up to par (and it looks like the recruiting criticism has been good for Gary, and it appears he has stepped up his effort). And yeah, that’s judging Gary against the expectations that he set, and he should be proud that he turned this school into a program that expects nothing less than winning and making the NCAA ever year. We are NOT FSU, G.Tech, VT, or Miami, where making the tourney every four years is a success and a mark of improvement. So it’s not fair to compare Gary successes or shortcomings against these coaches and schools. But where is another tradition-rich school that has had such a decline? Kentucky? (okay, not a good example for my point, but it’s the only recent example I can think of, which just shows the lack of precedent for this). How long do you let it decline? Do you risk becoming a VT or Miami, where you become the good story of the year when you make the tourney? I sure hope it never comes to that. I would surely be sad to see Gary go, but if we just get more of the same next year, I’m not sure I can stay on board…

  62. Wheels, it’s not up to Gary to name a coach in waiting, that’s Debbie’s call with Gary’s agreement.
    But that is the conundrum, do they hire a coach in waiting to ensure recruiting consistency or do they wait out Gary’s contract and go for the best name coach they can get? Personally, I would like Gary to announce when he is leaving and then they hire the best name they can, Miller, Dixon, Capel, Pearl, Smith or whoever else is out there.
    I am not so worried that they can’t afford a big name, the money will be there and it’s still one of the 10 best jobs in College Basketball.

  63. FSU 32 VT 25 at halftime

  64. Harry has it right. In a couple years Gary will say “this is my last season” and then you look for your coach. You don’t try to get one right now. You limit your options by doing that. No named coach is going to want to sit on the bench for a couple years.

    The season isn’t over. Like I had said previously, I don’t see us reeling off three straight wins next weekend but the postmortem should wait until then season is over. We absolutely should take the NIT bid if offered. It is run by the NCAA and you don’t want to piss them off by stiffing them on that bid.

  65. I hope y’all have followed the ACC Champs this season. I am a season ticket holder of the men’s and women, and it’s the women who are by far the most fun to watch. Great coaching and recruiting by Brenda, and pure joy, talent and teamwork by Toliver, Marissa and the whole team.

    You can get great seats for almost nothing and sit right up front. It feels as if we all are part of this great Terp family. The games are more exciting because of how well this group plays together. Congrats to the Terps for beating Duke today for the championship!

  66. Congratulations to the Lady Terps!!! Outstanding effort to get by a Duke team that played as if it was gonna go before a firing squad if they lost. “Overtime is our time” indeed.

  67. FSU beats VT 63-53 , pretty much eliminating them. I think we are the 7th seed now

  68. good job FSU. the NCAA dream lives on!

    did anyone just catch the 200+ lb heal of the UNC player that landed squarely in zoubek’s crotch??? HAAAA! i love it, his voice must’ve just risen several octaves!

  69. Does anyone know how Duke would be the 2 seed? I would prefer if we win to play them, I know the terps are playing better vs them and could give them a game

  70. I’m confused. Wont Miami be the 7 seed, us 8 and VaTech 9?

  71. NYMets. I think that if Duke wins today and Clemson beats Wake then Duke would be the second seed.

  72. seth davis is an idiot. He gave his last 4 teams in and goes “even though they have lost 6 of their last 7, I still think virginia tech is in. Either that shows how weak the bubble really is or he just has no idea what he’s talking about.

  73. jonbrons, from the WaPO site:

    Posted at 5:17 PM ET, 03/ 8/2009
    Terps Draw No. 7 Seed, N.C. State
    Earlier today Florida State knocked off Virginia Tech, which ensured that Maryland will hold the No. 7 seed in this week’s ACC tournament. That means the Terps will square off against No. 10 seed N.C. State at 7 p.m. on Thursday.

    Should the Terps advance, they would play the No. 2 seed (at this point, either North Carolina, Duke or Wake Forest) at 7 p.m. on Friday.

    On March 1, Maryland defeated N.C. State, 71-60, in Raleigh. The Wolfpack lost three of its last four games to close the regular season.

  74. Ok in order for Duke to be the 2 seed, we need clemson to beat WF. If WF wins, they are the 2 seed

  75. “It’s too bad,” Toliver said, “that we had to break their hearts twice.” … Wish that Vasquez could be the one saying that… but oh well better than nothing I guess.

  76. Sweet, a 7:00 PM game. Expect State to pound the ball down low. All the comments after our game with them were about them giving up on going down low. Smith did hurt us for sure.

    Something makes me think that GV might get a little more attention this go-around…

  77. Anyone Souper want ACC Tourney Tix in Terps section on floor email me:
    Harrygel@gmail.com

  78. Hey my brothers in Terphood…

    Why does espn and ACC.com have MD as the 8th seed (with Miami as 7th and Va Tech as the 9th)?

    I kind of wanna know if I will be taking off work on Thursday, you know? I also don’t wanna see Va Tech during the 1st round. I worry more about Vassalo, Delaney and that dude that gave us the finger, than I do, Gonzalez and his peeps.

    We would probably choke on that game too. Sonofabitch!

  79. I will say that my understanding was we were an 8th seed in the event of a three way tie.

  80. Props to the Women’s team and coaches on winning the ACCT.

    In an unrelated topic I just watched a semi final game in the American East Tournament. With 61 seconds left a time out was called during which the Binghamton coach told his kids “get a stop and grab the rebound”.

    Not exactly an X & O guy bu his team did win the game.

  81. I just looked at the ACC rule book and the first tiebreaker for a 3 way tie is the teams record vs the two teams. Maryland is 2-1 (beat MIA and VT), Miami is 1-2 and VT is 1-1. We are the 7 seed. ESPN is wrong.

  82. Yep, 7th seed. That helps because we don’t want any part of that UNC team. I think playing Duke we be better. If we beat them it looks better than Wake.

    I haven’t made a prediction all year but I will repeat what I said right after we lost to them last time. We won’t lose to that team three times this year. If we get by State we will beat Duke.

    You can take that to the bank. Well, a local bank, those national banks won’t back anyone right now :)

  83. wake beat clemson so it looks they are the 2 seed. This is so reminisicent to last year. The Wake game was similar to the Clemson game where we played our hearts out on senior night then lost the finale at virginia both years. Now, just like clemson was the potential matchup after bc last year, wake is now the possibility after n.c. state. This team has to turn it around, they can do it just got to believe.

  84. Wake is the 2 seed…so, if we beat NC State, wouldn’t we be getting Wake? As difficult as it’s gonna be to beat Johnson & Aminu, I want anotha crack at them. It would b sweet to play Duke again though

  85. Thursday: No. 7 Maryland vs. No. 10 NC State, 7:00 p.m. (ESPN2)

    Friday: No. 2 Wake Forest vs. Maryland/NC State winner, 7:00 p.m. (Raycom/ESPN2)

  86. First we beat NCST again and then we beat Wake. Pretty simple equation for an NCAA birth.

  87. We can beat NCST, we’ve done it before, on the road, the players just need to be confident. Hayes and Tucker were both extremely tense and nervous to shoot a lot on Saturday. If we play with confidence and intensity, well win. And I like a potential WF matchup. That team is young, and if they’re not hitting shots they can get frustrated, we just have to box out. Yeah, Aminu, Johnson and Williams will get a some offensive boards, and Im fine with that. Not much you can do. But I do not want to see, if we are lucky enough to win vs NCST, Smith and Teague getting offensive putbacks. That happened a couple a times when we played earlier.

  88. Maryland wins ACC championships in WBB and Wrestling. We are doing well as a school. I know it’s not Men’s BB but at least they are championships. Just need to get the shoots to fall on the road, not too much to ask is it?

    Go TERPS

  89. I am sure we are all aware of this timeline and facts regarding the Terps but hopefully a quick refresher will shed some light on why so many fans are frustrated and think a change is needed. I think if we all look back at the recent history of this once elite program it will shed more light on why the current plight of this team is so frustrating.

    We all remember when Maryland was in basketball exile after the Len Bias death continuing through the Bob Wade era. Gary Williams came in and absolutely rescued the program and accomplished more than most anyone thought possible.

    Don’t you guys remember how great February and March used to be for us Terps fans. Each year it was so exciting wondering where the Terps would be seeded, what region they would be shipped to, the sheer joy of Selection Sunday. Planning to take off work to go to or at least watch the games. Sure there were years the Terps lost early in the tourney and years they pulled upsets, but they were almost always there and a relevant team. The great run of success culminating with a Final Four and then National Title put the Terps on top of the basketball world. They were in the same discussion as the elite programs such as Duke, UNC, Kentucky, UConn, Arizona and the like. I think it’s safe to say that everyone saw the Terps as a top level program that would stay that way for years to come.

    No one could have predicted the swift decline into mediocrity. Now the end of the season has become tortuous at best. The Terps and their fans have now resorted to hoping teams ahead of them lose, hoping to beat inferior teams to have a chance to make the tourney, listening to their coach whine about not being selected, and just hoping by any chance to squeak into the tourney for a game or two. It has been an incredible change as to the level of this program, the expectations, the hopes, excitement and everything else that comes along with being an elite college basketball program.

    Debating whether how much of it is bad luck, poor recruiting, poor coaching or whatever reasons can be thought of is really not the point.

    The main issue here is that a program and coach that built themselves up into an elite program are now nowhere close to that level. The Terps are now a middle of the road program that only hopes for success but does not expect it or have the ability to achieve it. There has to be a middle ground here. Maybe it’s not fair to expect Gary Williams and the Terps to be an elite program — but with an incredibly vast talent base surrounding them, a highly paid hall of fame coach, great facilities and fans, constant TV exposure, the ability to play against top level competition, and a strong past to draw on it simply is not unreasonable to expect more than mediocrity…

  90. The Terps aren’t dead yet! Great seed!

  91. The only downside is that State plays well in the tourney. It’s a bid deal down here and they will be jacked up. If they make a good showing in the ACC tourney that will go a long way towards pleasing their fans.

  92. Hey, to John, and whomever else. sorry if I came across as kind of a dick. I didn’t mean to sound so fired up. To be honest, I was stinking drunk. St. pattys day fest in Hoboken. What can you do…

    By the way, the tourney set-up couldn’t be rosier. We can do this…

  93. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/ncaa/03/08/cousins.memphis/index.html

    Good for this kid. All he wanted was a free transfer if his coach left and Alabama wouldn’t give it to him. This has been watched closely and a lot of schools didn’t want Bama to budge. The thought is all these kids would want something in their letter of intent to allow them to move under certain conditions.

  94. It’s gonna be a long week till thursday,….and yet, i am not looking forward to watching the game. With these terps, you never know what you gonna get…

    Actually, we know what we shold expect given the talent level and the size…it’s just that ever so often, the Terps fuck up and go win games you don’t expect them to win on paper…and next thing you know, the team is in contention…our hearts start to soar, then they play like one would expect this team with this talent level to play…and we all come crashing down.

    Remember folks, many expected this team to finish at the bottom of the ACC…They have actually over achieved. We are the smallest team in the freaking ACC and we are 7-9. That is fucking commendable…I know…if we won that Miami game, that Florida State game and that Boston college game, we would have been 10-6. It was actually possible, right?…that would have been something for a team as small as this.

    Well, what we gonna do, right? All we can hope for is for this team to continue the miracle (if you saw the NC State guys, and compared them to our boys, yo uwill not think that MD would beat them,…they so big!). It will be a miracle to beat NC State and Wake…and then, perhaps, we can lose to the next team and make the tourney…whew!

    GO TERPS. I’m all in

  95. I won’t allow myself to get my hopes up for the ACC tournament. We’ve only won ONE game in this stupid thing since the magical 04 run. The way we’re stumbling towards the finish line in this season, I’m not going to be surprised if/when State beats us

  96. A quote from Neal in the Baltimore Sun after Saturday’s game.

    “There was probably some guys that didn’t give their best effort, but we can’t use that as an excuse,” said Neal, who finished with 15points. “If you couldn’t get excited for this game – we’re 7-8, a chance to win and go 8-8, and you can’t get excited to play hard for 40minutes – I question your love for basketball.”

    I’m guessing he’s talking about some of his teammates and not himself. He’s right obviously, but is this going to fire up some guys or just cause problems? Maybe it doesn’t really matter when you look at the very steep hill they have to climb. I’d be pissed off too if I was him, especially being a senior.

  97. Expect an NC State win. That makes victory a pleasant surprise. It also reflects reality. This team is so streaky. Right now, the Terps are streaking downward.

  98. We’ll beat NC St, play really well, get our hopes up, then throw up a stinker against Wake. Its what we’ve done all year, no reason to expect anything any different now.

  99. In the rumors arena… there are quite a few running around that Lance has narrowed it down to us and KU.

  100. Neal shouldn’t have said that to the media even if that’s what he believed. He is the senior, you snatch a few collars and tell them up close and personal. Making a blanket statement like that stains the entire team and not just the people who weren’t ready to play.

  101. I’ve been quite deflated since the UVa flop and have had trouble either commenting or getting up for the upcoming tournament game. I kept wondering why. Why can’t I summon much enthusiasm right now? What’s going on in my head and heart? Then I read John’s post above and I think he articulated quite nicely what I was feeling. Thanks John.

    BTW, I believe some of you guys were giving him quite a bit of flack for earlier comments, but what can any of us say to the following excerpt from his most recent post? I think it captured how I feel right now very accurately. Doesn’t it capture how you’re feeling?

    John wrote, “Don’t you guys remember how great February and March used to be for us Terps fans. Each year it was so exciting wondering where the Terps would be seeded, what region they would be shipped to, the sheer joy of Selection Sunday. Planning to take off work to go to or at least watch the games. Sure there were years the Terps lost early in the tourney and years they pulled upsets, but they were almost always there and a relevant team. The great run of success culminating with a Final Four and then National Title put the Terps on top of the basketball world. They were in the same discussion as the elite programs such as Duke, UNC, Kentucky, UConn, Arizona and the like. I think it’s safe to say that everyone saw the Terps as a top level program that would stay that way for years to come.

    No one could have predicted the swift decline into mediocrity. Now the end of the season has become tortuous at best. The Terps and their fans have now resorted to hoping teams ahead of them lose, hoping to beat inferior teams to have a chance to make the tourney, listening to their coach whine about not being selected, and just hoping by any chance to squeak into the tourney for a game or two. It has been an incredible change as to the level of this program, the expectations, the hopes, excitement and everything else that comes along with being an elite college basketball program.”

    Guys, I’m going to be rooting for them on Thursday as always , and hopefully again on Friday. My heart still bleeds Terrapin Red but it is getting tougher and tougher to fight through these feelings spring after spring. It’s like a bad dream that keeps recurring just about every damn spring season now.

    I hope they take out State. I hope they take out Wake and then at least play their next opponet very, very tough. But guys, quite frankly, I think it would be something of a miracle if it happens. I’m fully expecting a flameout in game one. If not, Wake will send them packing in game two with a severe beat down. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m just not feeling it right now.

    Is it ok to be honest? I’m trying to summon the enthusiasm for the ACCT, but it just ain’t happening. I can’t even write Go Terps! JWB! with much feeling anymore. Ok, I’ll say Miracles Can Still Happen. At least I’m CYA if they happen to pull off a stunning run in this tournament and get a dancing invite.

  102. Given recent history (or rather general MD history in the ACC tournament) I’m guessing there is a 60% chance they lose to NC State, 20% chance they beat State, lose to Wake, 10% chance beat State and Wake lose to whoever in the semis and get snubbed from the Tournament, and finally 10% chance they beat State and Wake, and make it to the tournament.

    I hope that I’m being overly pessimistic, but the ACC tournament has only been kind to MD roughly every 20 years, so that means we still have about 15 more to go before we see any success.

  103. Maybe the Terps will get amazingly good or lucky and reel off two and maybe three wins and get into the NCAA tourney. If the Terps have to settle for the NIT, I just hope the Terps do not think they are too good for it. It would be a tough battle.

    The Terps are paying the price today of poor recruiting effort of past years. Certainly the effort and attitude are much better these days. The Terps seem to be turning recruiting around for 2009 and with some terrific prospects for 2010. If Gary can have a good ACC tourney, it will keep Debbie and the Washington Post quiet for a little while, and then maybe the future is starting to look better as 2010 recruits pour in.

  104. Gents;

    Unfortunately, there is a universal truth in college basketball and that is ,over time ,great recruiting will almost always beat great coaching, and that’s why great recruiters find themselves in the upper echelon of basketball rankings year after year. And if you can really coach on top of that, so much the better.

    As I think most of us realize, GW is a great coach but a lousy recruiter – he hates it.

    So, how does Maryland get back to the proimised land – it has to be through recruiting. GW has proved he can take less than the best and get a lot out of them, but that cannot cut it in the ACC.

    So, the undeniable fact is GW has got to do one of two things – recruit the best recruiter(s) to join the staff or step aside.

    I don’t like the idea, but can anyone tell me another way for us to become truly competitive in this conference????

  105. Vaz blew it plain and simple. Big time players make big time plays every time.

    The way the Terps get back on top is to earn the kids from the Metro area. Clean up the raucous garbage you call fan support. Do a little background and keep the less than savory kids out. Anything less will continue with less than desireable kids. Terpland is great and should be honored not vilified every single week. If Gary won’t do it find someone who will. You may hate Yow but all of her coaches are succeeding. So either Gary conforms to 2008, not buckle conform, or else you find a young kid and give him 5 years to earn it. I would rather have a bright future than a bleak one which is all there is.

  106. Lost among all of this is the absolute awful play of Adrian “Baba” Bowie. He has cost MD so many points over the last three games. His +/- must be terrible. I have a feeling Bowie was one of the folks that Dave Neal was calling out.

    Bowie is terrified to shoot the ball from outside of the paint. His shot looks terrible (so does Cliff Tucker’s) and he has no confidence. He has turned the ball over like crazy too. A 6’2″ guard who can’t shoot and is a turnover machine is a deadly combo.

  107. I think Bowie is a one trick pony right now. He is quick and wants to blow by you for the easy score. People now just play off of him. He hasn’t really adjusted to that.

    He needs to work on his shot like Lawson did for UNC. When Lawson came in the league he was a terrible jump shooter. Now he is deadly from out there. He really worked at it and it paid off. Hopefully Bowie can do the same.

  108. Yes Jeremy, Adrian “Fa Fa Foooheey” Bowie has looked completely lost the past 6 games or so. Bobby Maze would be lookin pretty good right now

  109. A GOOD SUMATION

    http://www.east-coast-bias.com/2009/03/maryland-basketball-expect-soul.html

  110. I can’t believe this. I just looked up the Terp plus/minus numbers for the year and I am in shock. Adrian Bowie has the second best plus/minus on the team! I’m not sure how that is possible. Sean Mosley and Braxton Dupree are by far the worst two on the team. So much for Sean doing all the little things to beat teams, eh?

    Eric Hayes +118
    Adrian Bowie +107
    Greivis Vazquez +100
    Dave Neal +91
    Landon Milbourne +21
    Dino Gregory +45
    Cliff Tucker -13
    Braxton Dupree -37
    Sean Mosley -40

    As a point of reference, the 6 top Duke plus/minus are all better than Eric Hayes (by a lot):

    Kyle Singler (+413)
    Jon Scheyer (+404)
    Gerald Henderson (+336)
    Nolan Smith (+278)
    Brian Zoubek (+232)
    David McClure (+127)

  111. Jeremy,
    Help me here, whats plus / minus?

  112. Yes, Jeremy. Where are you getting these numbers?

  113. Jeremy,

    Do you have plus/minus numbers for ACC play? Those are probably more informative, since Terps are mid-pack (or a little worse) in ACC but are above average when the whole schedule is considered. Where do you get these numbers, anyway?

    Terpsfan makes a good point about GW not hiring the best recruiters. You always hear about James Franklin getting involved with recruiting for Fridge. But in basketball, what did assistants Michael Adams and now Joe Harrington ever do to get recruits in? Chuckie and Keith do nice jobs, but are they top recruiters? Maybe the Terps need to restructure and get the James Frankin of basketball on the staff, some superstar who will get top recruits to pay attention.

  114. This is from espn’s bubble watch.

    Maryland [18-12 (7-9), RPI: 65, SOS: 26] Honestly, who didn’t see Maryland’s 68-63 loss at Virginia on Saturday coming from a mile away? Over the past few seasons, these are the kind of games the Terrapins have been unable to win. A victory over the Cavaliers, who had lost 12 of their past 14 games, would have secured an 8-8 record in ACC play for Maryland, which would have greatly enhanced its at-large chances. Instead, the Terps limp into the ACC tournament with a 7-9 record in league play after dropping three of their past four games. Worse, they have the worst RPI rating (No. 65) among the league’s bubble teams. Maryland has two high-end victories — over North Carolina at home and over Michigan State on a neutral court. The Terps split games with Miami and beat Virginia Tech at home, but lost to Boston College. Maryland is 3-8 against RPI top-50 foes and 8-10 against the top 100. They also have a pair of RPI sub-100 losses, losing to Morgan State at home and Virginia on the road. Maryland might have to beat NC State in the first round and upset No. 2 seed Wake Forest in the second round to have a chance at an at-large bid.

  115. If you want to look at +/-, you have to also include per minute.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/d1scourse/2009/Mar/08/plus-minus-maryland-virginia/

    Best in ACC games per minute are:

    Kim 0.18
    Neal -0.04
    Burney -0.05
    Hayes -0.06
    Vasquez -0.09
    Tucker -0.11
    Bowie -0.13
    Gregory -0.13
    Milbourne -0.18
    Mosley -0.19
    Dupree -0.40

    Based on this, start Neal, Gregory, Vasquez, Tucker, Hayes.

    Mosley plays good D, but his ineptitued on O hurts us more than his D helps us.

    I don’t know how you guys can blame Vasquez for the loss to UVA. I blame everyone EXCEPT Vasquez and Neal. Nobody else contributed anything.

  116. The plus/minus is also known as the Roland Rating. I’m not sure how I feel about this stat as far as evaluating a players contribution to his team…I wanna say that last season’s plus/minus for both Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo of the Celtics were below 4.

  117. Of course Mosley is going to look bad from a numbers perspective, because stats in basketball are all geared toward the offensive end. The only defensive stat is steals (and partially rebounds) but there is no way to account for tipped balls, gaurding the opposing team’s best player and holding him below is ppg, picking up offensive fouls, etc.

    Anyone who has watched this team on a regular basis is aware of Mosley’s contributions

  118. I don’t have plus/minus numbers for ACC play only. Sorry.

    plus/minus is a stat that adds up the total points scored and allowed while that specific player is in the game.

    So for example…

    During the minutes that Sean Mosley has played this season MD has been outscored by 40 points.

    Given all of the cupcakes we played this year; no Terp should have a negative plus/minus number. I’m not sure how relevant this is given that Bowie has the second best number on the team and he has been awful.

  119. I think that Mosleys number nay be a little misleading since he has gotten more MPG in ACC play than he did in non-conference play. I’m still high on the kid, and I really think that he can be a great player for us in the near future. Everyone knows he’s gonna have to work on his jumper (and layups too for that matter) but he does enough right defensively that if he becomes even a mediocre offensive player, he can be a real plus for this team.

    Also, a -37 for Dupree is even worse than I thought. He got almost all his minutes against the Delaware States of the world and STILL has a terrible +/-. How is that even possible? If we’re blowing teams out by 20, how can a +/- be negative for anyone?

  120. That is a valid point Raj. Mosley’s minutes did come mostly in ACC play. That skews it for sure. Dupree is transferring I’m sure. He has no business playing in the ACC. He’s just not cut out for it. I’d be shocked if he didn’t go to Loyola in the off season.

  121. Greivis 2nd team All ACC

    All-ACC Teams

    First Team
    *Tyler Hansbrough, North Carolina (228)
    Toney Douglas, Florida State (226)
    Ty Lawson, North Carolina (224)
    Gerald Henderson, Duke (210)
    Jack McClinton, Miami (188)

    Second Team
    Jeff Teague, Wake Forest (185)
    Trevor Booker, Clemson (156)
    Tyrese Rice, Boston College (151)
    Kyle Singler, Duke (128)
    Greivis Vasquez, Maryland (116)

    Third Team
    James Johnson, Wake Forest (100)
    Malcolm Delaney, Virginia Tech (83)
    A.D. Vassallo, Virginia Tech (81)
    Danny Green, North Carolina (48)
    Gani Lawal, Georgia Tech (46)

    Honorable Mention
    Wayne Ellington, North Carolina (41)
    K.C. Rivers, Clemson (33)
    Sylven Landesberg, Virginia (15)

    All-Freshman Team
    *Sylven Landesberg, Virginia (76)
    *Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest (76)
    Iman Shumpert, Georgia Tech (70)
    Solomon Alabi, Florida State (59)
    Ed Davis, North Carolina (55)

    Honorable Mention
    Chris Singleton, Florida State (21)

    All-Defensive Team
    Trevor Booker, Clemson (67)
    Toney Douglas, Florida State (67)
    Solomon Alabi, Florida State (53)
    Danny Green, North Carolina (28)
    L.D. Williams, Wake Forest (26)

    Honorable Mention
    Ty Lawson, North Carolina (20)
    Gani Lawal, Georgia Tech (17)
    Courtney Fells, North Carolina State (16)
    Gerald Henderson, Duke (15)

    * Unanimous selection.

  122. Here’s a link to a WaPo article with plus/minus info for the game against UVa, ACC games, All Season etc

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/d1scourse/2009/Mar/08/plus-minus-maryland-virginia/

  123. Methinks Adrian has lost confidence in his jump shot and is relying on his quickness to get to the basket. Unfortunately after his success earlier this season doing that, teams are now defending him that way. He needs to regain confidence in his shot and use his quickness as a threat and pop some mid-range jump shots to get the defense to play him more honestly and to get into a rhythm. Just listen to his coaches, we need him to score. He’s made just four (4) 3-point shots in 2009. Hell, he made three 3-point shots against Georgetown, three against Michigan and four against Michigan State.

  124. Painful loss. I’m just now able to consider it….it sucked.

    I can’t believe that the Terps shoot as poorly as they do sometimes.

    Grayson,
    I’m a numbers person and I like the stat. The most telling individual performance, IMO, is that Burney was the best performing Terp. He truely was a spark-plug for the team. I hope he’s able to recover from the injury.

  125. Hi all,

    After reading both posts (one on VA and this one), I am remained of a Bill Parcell’s quote: “Your record indictates who you are.” In post-2004 ACCT championship, we fell from the ACC echolon to middle-of-the-pack.

    Look at the ACC for football, that has killed us. VA Tech and Miami weren’t big-name basketball programs, compared to BC; yet, ea. program falls somewhere’s from 5th, BC, to VT 8th and Miami 9th respectively. The more teams, the more games…

    The unbalanced schedule… Under the round-robin format, we knew our opponents that season. This schedule, we may face BC once or Duke at home once and then poss. in the ACCT. You still need to know your foe. And yet, Maryland hasn’t learned the tendencies of Miami, VT or BC and “forgotten” those of the old ACC. That goes to scouting…

    The lack and loss of DC-Balt. talent… Gay story is known. The WP expose showcased to all of us, how college basketball is quietly and quickly behind-the-scenes emerging to be second pro league. In 2005, Maryland hosted Manhattan b/c AD Yow wanted the money. Or from the Post, how Beasley wanted his AAU coach to be paid $450,000 and be named as an assistant. Kansas State paid, we didn’t. As Joe Pesci said in Casino, “It’s all about the dollars.” It’s no different now than when Williams was hired in June 1989. When Walt Williams came, it opened the market to us. Then Georgetown collasped w/ Allen Iverson-JTII fued, Maryland was more of a vital option.

    The Len Bias factor… Even after his shocking death in June 1986, the impact of Bias remains. “That’s the school that allowed it to happen” is still used in recruiting, esp. in basketball. The result along w/ the #1 ranking as the best party school by Playboy in 1985 also ushered in a new era on admissions regulations. How many talented players can remain in school? Urban and rural education systems have rapidly declined in the last 25-30 years, affecting the application process. Does Williams or assistants fight for his (their) players?

    The cult of personality…. Like teaching, coaching is a direct reflection of the person in charge. Williams’ persona mandates unconsciously his choices. Think about it! What are Williams’ character? What makes Williams – Williams? How does he use motivation, teaching style in practice (when you did watch him at Cole)? Williams’ cult of personality dictates the vision of this program. One can use Neal’s post-game quote Sat. as an example – calling out his fellow players (ala – Larry Bird in 1986 vs. Houston).

    And finally, should Williams be fired or allowed to retire gracefully? That’s the immediate issue for us on this blog as well in the media as speculation. If he goes (fired or resigns after this season), who’s the next head coach? The buyout is reportedly at $4.5 million dollars. Who and what are these candidates?

    Or option 2, he stays for next two remaining years or until 70. Joe Pa, 85, turned away Penn State FB over the last few season at our expense. If Williams remains for the final two years, will the incoming, 2011, or 2012 recurits come? Should he stay what will that mean? If I recall correctly, the max age requirement for retirement in MD is 70 years old. Should he stay until then? Who’ll be the coach-in-waiting? Chuck, Keith, or a GW-descendent Longeran at Vermont or Pantos at Loyala to maintain the philosophy of the program? Or go completely outside – non-alumni of campus and/or program? Dixon at Pitt is oft-mentioned on this blog.

    The above doesn’t have simple solution, yet this current trand suggests something must be done to improve the overall quality of our beloved program. Yes, in the last 20 years, Williams has made us into what Lefty could of only dream – “UCLA of the East”. From 1998 until 2004, we were part of the old guard in the ACC. Now, we’re in the middle – struggling to find solutions.

    Like the majority of you, I feel our pain. Someone asked Wheels (earlier post on this posting), what makes faithful Terp followers, suffering the extremes. I once told my old best friend, who’s a die-hard Yankee fan, “Maryland fans can be compared to Boston Red Sox prior to the two world titles. We embody the agony of defeat and the thrill of victory.” Yes, I used the old ABC theme, but it is equivalent of Wheels notion of who we are.

    So Go Terps!

  126. Burney played 68 minutes all year. I’m not sure what that says in terms of plus/minus. One good team run while he was in there could distort the number, whether Burney was the cause of the run or not.

  127. Now that I’m semi-recovered from the UVA game, beat Pack and beat WF and we’re in? Here we go again. I should know better than to dream but damn it sure feels like it can be done. Didn’t FSU get in with a sub-500 record in the ACC? How did they do in the conference tourney?

    Big congrats to the women’s team. I’ve been semi-secretly following them closely the past few years. I’ve always felt Brenda to be more of a recruiter than a coach. She gets recruits that UConn and Tennessee usually get. Case in point, this year’s team had the ACC POY, another 1st-team ACC and the ACC ROY. She is the women’s equivalent of Roy Williams. I never thought her a great coach. In yesterday’s game, we got a technical foul in the 2nd half because 6 players were on the court out of a timeout! In crucial timeouts the male assistant (Park?) usually draws up the play. Which brings me to Gary. I’ve always thought having a great coach vs a great recruiter was better. Maybe I’m getting old-fashioned. Maybe basketball has changed. Guys like John Cheney and Bob Knight really struggled their last few years because they were “coaches”, not “recruiters”. Anyway, the Lady Terps really make me proud. I’ll be rooting for them hard in the NCAA’s. Looks like they’re going to be a #1 seed.

    My gut tells me we will lose to State. But it’s only Tuesday. By Thursday I’ll probably believe the Terps are gonna win the tournament.

  128. Here is my local slant on the State game.

    They are a bit pissed about GV’s shot at the end of that last game. When I tell them he apologized after the game it is a surprise to them. I guess it didn’t get down here. Big shock with the holier than tho media here in town.

    The other thing you get is they don’t want to play us. They think we have their number. I would have to look it up but they say we have consistently beaten them over the last few years. That is in football (that’s in there for you wheels) and basketball. I do remember that Rivers never beat us his entire career at state.

    The downside is they fair well in the ACC tournament and we do not.

    Which trend will win out? We shall see…

  129. Let’s not forget that if we hadn’t won the 2004 ACC Tournament, we probably would have been in the NIT again.

  130. Eddie, I’m not even semi-recovered. I will say this though, if they win their first two ACCT games, I’ll probably snap out of it. Just a win over NCST I’m afraid will not do it at this point. Here’s a scenario that’s plausible to my mind: beat State in a thriller, play WF tough, then go home and turn down the NIT. Might be a half decent way to go out. Unfortunately, a more likely scenario: lose a close one to State, accept the NIT bid and then lose either their first or second round NIT game after blowing a 15 point lead.

  131. Desert… let us not forget.. if my aunt had balls….

  132. Terrell Vinson update coming tonight

  133. Terrell Vinson update tonight.

  134. JohnE — thanks for the comments regarding my last post. I tried to approach writing it in not such negative light but still trying to express what I think many Terps fans are going through. I find it funny though that so many of the posters here who criticize anyone who brings up things about the Terps in anything less than blind optimism didn’t have much to say. I guess that is a compliment that Gerry, Gregg, Jeremy and anyone else who read that post probably had it sink in and realize that is where much of the true frustration with these last several years lies. It’s good to see more people are finally getting the picture here…

  135. The numbers I posted were per minute in ACC play. The facts are that when Mosley was on the court during ACC games, the team lost at a rate of -0.19 points per minute. +/- takes into account the fact that you play good D, take charges, inspire your teammates, score points, turn the ball over, etc. For some reason, when Mosley is on the court, the team suffers more than when others are on the court.

  136. John – We get it. We just handle it better than some of you. It’s all about expectations.

    We had ours, you had yours.

    You can’t push a rope. Part of me wants to say our guys overachieved. I believe they did. You see, before the season started we read Mosely’s press clippings, we were expecting better results from Hayes’ visit with Steve Blake and sensed that AB and CT would significantly improve. We did not factor Burney’s physical calamaties nor Dupree’s shortcomings. Those were probably the nexus of our “optimism”.

    What we didn’t expect was Soupers taking their frustration out on the program, the coach and the players. At times they made us proud and then they just careened off probable wins.

    The road to the National Championship goes right through the dump. Some of you fell of the truck and got mired in the composts and trash.

    Shake it off and never, ever, give up or give in

    Go Terps.

  137. Terrell Vinson now lists the Terps in his final four along with Cincy, Charlotte and UMass. He appears to be waiting to see what Greivis does. Gary’s made it clear that he currently doesn’t have an available ‘ship. Vinson’s camp isn’t in a big rush to make a decision. We’ll see how things pan out.

  138. You’re welcome. I think sheer frustration is the one thing all Soupers have in common right now. Everyone is just trying to express it in their own way and their own words. Some are better at articulating it than others. Some let their frustration out in ways that can be at times a bit uncouth.

    IMO, the mediocre state of our program is what’s generating all the negativity on this site. Consistently winning would aleviate this frustration we’ve all been experiencing the last few years. Getting back to being a top tier ACC program is what we all want. I miss going to the Dance. I’d like us to get back to where we were when we when we went just about every year. Is that too much to ask? I know going to the Final Four every few years is a bit too much to expect, but a Tournament invite wouldn’t be too much to expect? Why the hell can’t we be one of the top 65 teams in the country with all we’ve got going for us mystifys me, especially during this time of year.

  139. going into the acc season i thought we’d get four or five wins. so in that respect, i’m happy with how we performed. however, i do sort of think being “happy” with seven wins is sort of a sad prospect in and of itself. we should do better, no question. and i’m not jumping on the “fire gary” bandwagon by any means. especially since it’s economically impossible and simply stupid to suggest in the first place. but he now has two more seasons to put a good team together before his contract expires. if this next class is a bust, then he officially does not have the will or desire or whatever to take this team back to a final four contender. and he’ll be 66 and probably ready to hang it up anyway.

    which is what makes these next two years the most important for the franchise in the last 20 years. because if gary can bring us back to respectability and get us back in the tourney and making some noise, then i think he’ll probably retire anyway. he’ll have proven the haters wrong and will be able to say goodbye to an AD he hates, a fan and media base that’s all over his ass, and a recruiting situation that he can’t win. he could go to a smaller school and play that underdog card to his heart’s content and just focus on game coaching. but maryland can also get another guy in that has a proven track record and it can seem like a mutual decision and the program just moving in to the next era. instead of seeming like a program in utter disrepair, which it will if gary gets run out of town after another two years of mediocrity.

    that’s what i think the gary haters are failing to realize. it’s almost like they’re rooting against himcbecause they think his time has passed and they want to move on right now, but what they’re not seeing is that it’s only gary that can bring us back. otherwise we’re back to square one and will be rebuilding for another ten years or more. at least that’s how i see it

  140. Desert Island Boy — It’s a common misconception among MD fans that if we didn’t win the ACC tournament or have good run then we would have not made the NCAAs that year either. But in actuality, that team was 6-8 and then won at a ranked NC State, then beat a decent UVA team at home to get to 8-8 and was pretty much a lock.

  141. I’m referring to 2004 of course

  142. Rick…football! Yes!

  143. I think Gary has something up his sleeve for next year. Why else is he still chasing Born ready and checking on vinson. I watched the women and it was great, did lose a 10 point lead and couldn’t bring it up against Duke’s pressure. Felt like Deja vou with the men’s team not being able to hold a lead and getting tight. Juan would have been drilling threes.

    I don’t want Gary to go. I just want Billy Hahn back helping him. Rumor is Dickerson may come back.

  144. Chris0049-
    I have to correct you. The 2003-04 team was 5-9 before beating NC State and UVA. We were 7-9 heading into the ACC Tournament. At the time, the feeling was that if we beat Wake in the first round; we would get the at-large bid with an 8-9 record. We were very much on the bubble heading into the ACC Tournament.

    The link for their record that year is here: http://terrapinstats.com/bb/gamesum.cfm?season=2004

  145. Yes, Jeremy…that is what I thot (we were 7-9 entering the tourney play)…those were the days, huh? I used to bartend at Jasper’s in Greenbelt and I remember that sunday afternoon, when we watched MD beat Duke for the ACC crown. That was sum shit for real. I remember Mike Jones as a freshman making that 3 pointer…boy, those were sum special times. I think I really caught the Terp BBall bug that sunday. I think I will go look for that game on youtube. Anyone got a link to it? I need something to take me out of my emotional funk right now.

    I digress…the next year, the Gilchrist that carried us on his back during the ACC tournament melted in front of everyone’s eyes on national TV during the 2005 tourney when we played Clemson. I even snuck out of work to catch that game (i am sure you fellow terpsters can relate).

    Shit has been downhill since…and apparently, we have not hit bottom yet! Rock bottom might be us on Thursday, again, before a National audience when NC State take their pound of flesh…

    Really though, I hope not. I don’t wanna think about thursday, yet, it is all i can think of.

    Thank God it’s only basketball, right?….sigh!

  146. the back to back wins – beating NC State after coming back from 22 points down to beating Duke in overtime will never be topped in terms of pure unexpected excitement. That was the best.

  147. As far as Brenda being a great recruiter but not a great coach, as Eddie says:

    Look at Brenda under adversity, like when they were down by 12 in the last 10 minutes of the first ACC tournament (WF) game, or in crucial situations vs, NC or Duke in the ACC tournament. Who is the calmest, most positive person in the arena? It’s Brenda. She inspires her team. They all love her and want to play and win for her. When her kids make a mistake, they get a smile or a hug back. She creates a family atmosphere where they all want to play their hearts out for each other. In the big picture, she’s a great coach as well as recruiter.

    On the Gentleman Terps (if posters call Brenda’s team the “Lady” Terps–what’s a lady turtle anyway– I guess we should be consistent), it’s tough to see Terrell Vinson and possibly Lance Stephenson want to come here when there are no ships available apparently. One could free up, like Dupree’s. But maybe the Gentleman Terps should save ships sometimes instead of giving them to marginal players, like Goins–just in case of situations exactly like this.

    http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/college/recruiting/2009/03/vinson_focused_on_four_schools.html

  148. Ok back to 2004 — can’t believe that I mis remembered those games considering I made the trip to NC State and then came back for the home UVA game…

    I still get the sense though that everyone knew after the UVA game that we were headed back to the NCAAs. Look at the happy dance that Gary is doing:

    http://www.umterps.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/030704aaa.html

    Also, that team had wins over North Carolina, North Carolina State, at Florida (#1) and against Wisconsin — which looked great on the resume. So, the ’04 team’s 7-9 was much better than our current 7-9

  149. The difference between the 2004 team (which was not even as good as the 2002 team) and this 2009 team is the front court, I think. Garrison and Caner-Medley were definitely bigger (and more of a threat) than Milbourne and Neal. Maybe not. Garrison was pretty useless many times. However, even the reservists that year (Strawberry, Jones & Ibewke) were more effective than Tucker, Hayes and Gregory. In 04, we had Gilchrist, J Smith and McCray…very effective players. This year, we have Vasquez, Mosley and Bowie. The difference is obvious.

    Apparently, GW did something wrong on the recruiting trail 2 years ago. But, I will let that shit go (I’m sick of all the GW hating i have been seeing). I will just wait and see what happens this thursday.

  150. EdDC, the coaches expect/know there will be some roster changes in the next few months but I wouldn’t count on Braxton leaving. Although nothing is certain at this point so we’ll see.

  151. What happened in the 2004 tournament was that Gilchrist played out of his mind. Later on we would find out that his mind was unstable. But, also, we had a pretty decent senior center in Jamar Smith.

    I foresee a loss to NC State on Thursday. Probably the worst lower-seeded team we could have drawn. They almost always play over their heads in the tourney. It is a very big deal on Tobacco Row, even if the tournament is in Atlanta this year. This is bringing back bad memories of our loss to the Wolfpack in the 2002 tournament when they were shooting lights-out and we came back, but too little too late. FWIW, I do not think Duke will make the finals; Wake Forest will take them out in the semis. UNC wins out for the third year in a row.

  152. Honestly, I hope GV goes pro. Sure, he leads in probably every statistical category, but I just think they’d be a better TEAM without him. Good luck in Europe, we’ll always love ya, but it’s time to call it a day.

    No way Gary should be fired. Damn few coaches can do what he does — as a coach. And it certainly looks like he’s making the “halftime adjustments” necessary to recruit better.

    All that said, it we bomb out and wind up in the NIT, we should go and cheer our asses off.

  153. On top of those big wins, the 04 team had zero what you would consider really bad losses like to Morgan State this year. In the ACC they lost to FSU away and that was probably the worse loss all year. Other than that though they lost to Wake (with Chris Paul) Duke, Georgia Tech (Final Four team that year???) UNC, and State which as previously mentioned were ranked for the better part of the year. Also none of those losses were blow outs.

  154. Bethesdaguy, if Greivis does go pro who from the current roster (and incoming committs) is going to fill the scoring void?

  155. Chrs0049,

    03-04 team was no better than this year’s team, but for 3 brilliant days by Gilchrist. Florida ended up 20-11 that year, losing in the NCCAT 1st rd to Manhattan; UNC was 18-10 entering NCAAT and was bounced in rd 2; NC ST was 20-9 entering NCAAT and was bounced in rd 2; Wisconsin, the best win of the year, also didn’t survive NCAAT first weekend.

    This pattern began in 03-04. It’s really been 6 seasons of far more disappointment than ascendancy.

  156. DBR — The smart-alec answer is “guys who will get the ball now”. But think Tucker, Hayes, Bowie, Padgett, Williams and perhaps Vinson or Stephenson. I mean, a team with more balanced scoring is a stronger team and a team that simply expects GV (or any other one player) to carry the whole load isn’t a balanced-scoring team. Look how well the Wizards did LAST YEAR when Arenas was out? (This year is a different story with Haywood out too and all kinds of other guys hurt an local-guy RMJ gone.)

    My point is that, while for every four good things GV does, he does one stupid thing. I just don’t think he’s a guy that can put the team on his back and I think they will be a better TEAM without him.

    You can’t score if you don’t get the ball. And, for example, you’re not going to get the ball when one guy is going to take a fast three with 25 seconds left on the shot clock and your team down by 2.

    I’d hate to see them lose a chance at someone better because a schollie isn’t available.

  157. Depaul just upset Cincinnati in the first round of the Big East Tournament lol…So much for Cincy being on the bubble anymore

  158. Lunardi didn’t have Cincy on the map anyway.

  159. DBR,

    Thanks for the comment on Dupree. I wonder what he is thinking, given his lack of minutes and the new bigs coming in. If he can’t beat out Neal, how is he going to beat out Jordan Williams? Maybe being an upperclassman will help him? If Dupree does go, I hope it is not the usual route, like Loyola. GW could use him, for example.

    Bethesdaguy:

    GV is the only consistently good (well above average) Terp. He is often close to great. As far as his “stupid” mistakes go, yes, we do see some of that. But he plays at a high level. If he had more guys who could play with him at the top ACC level, those stupid mistakes would instead be nice passes. Moreover, if more guys could play at his level on the Terps, you would see a better TEAM. GV would have more options in dishing the ball. He would not have to force a pass or his own shot that really isn’t there. I don’t fault GV for not playing down to the talent level of this team, and I give GV loads of credit for trying to pull his teammates up to a winning style of play.

  160. Toby — that’s fair, but at the time we played them, Florida was #1 (and we won in UF), UNC was #11, NC State ended up finishing second in the conference, and Wisconsin was #15. Much better wins then what we have this year, and like terps96 mentioned, no bone crushing losses to a Morgan St.

    I’m not making excuses, I’m not happy with a .500 conference record either, just pointing out that that team was > than our current squad

  161. It’s not where you are in December or January that determines you or your opponents quality. It’s where you are in March that matters. I suggest that the wins over NC and Mich St this year are better than any regular season wins the 03-04 team had. That team was not even close to a bid pre ACCT.

  162. “guys who will get the ball now” good one Bethesdaguy LOL. I hope you realize I wasn’t picking/slamming you earlier. It’s just that sometimes when I see people wish an All ACC guy to leave I just wonder if that person has given thought to who is going to pick up the scoring slack. Consider this though:

    In HS Padgett gets almost all of his points on put backs.

    In HS Williams is dominant but the level of competition pales in comparison to DC area HS competition so there will have to be a significant adjustment when he gets to CP

    Tucker, Hayes, and Bowie have yet to demonstrate that they can score consistently game after game or in pressure situations. Bowie has shown glimpses of being able to create his own shot, but that was earlier this season not recently

    It remains to be seen if Vinson or Stephenson will ever wear a Terp uniform so it’s not prudent to count on them at this point.

    Greivis certainly does things that makes us all scream in frustration, but he does want the ball in pressure situations. And nobody else on the team has demonstrated that desire.

    But I expect there to be roster attrition sometime in the next couple of months so we still have a shot at Vinson and/or Stephenson. I hope Lance learns how go to his left.

  163. the dream scenario is GV stays and Vinson/stephenson come here. A scholly could open up elsewhere (dupree or tucker transferring for ex.)

  164. St Johns up by 9 on G’town with 10 minutes to go.

  165. I am still pissed about this season. That Morgan State game and the damn florida road trip. Flip those Ls to Ws and this season has a completely different complexion. And then to lose to uva like that at the end when the prize was in their grasp…..Damn it all.

    Barring a miracle in the ACC, which I’m not giving up on, it looks like another NIT post-season (I think they will accept the NIT bid).

    It seems premature to discuss next season, but if things stay satus quo and only Padgett and Williams enter, next year’s team will be better than this year’s by a country mile. If they are also able to add Stephenson and/or Vinson, the team will only improve from there.

    If GV stays, he will, of course, be the star. If he leaves, or even if he stays for that matter, I expect big steps up from several players (listed in order of liklihood of improvement):

    1. Moseley – The kid scored too much in HS to forget how to shoot layups (as he has apparantly done as a freshment). I expect that he will have the steep frosh to soph learning curve and he add more scoring to his game.

    2. Gregory//Burney – Gregory was this year’s most improved. He’s going to add 10 to 15 pounds of muscle in the off season. You will not recognize him and his tentativeness will be gone. He’s a keeper. I wish he had better junior/senior talent around him, but the fact that he was pushed earlier than he was ready and that he responded well makes me think that he has lots of upside. I really liked Burney’s game when he was given a chance. I hope injuries don’t end his career.

    3. Bowie – Through the Miami game, the kid had it. Then, he lost it. He sure improved a lot from his Freshmen season and I think he’s got the personality to persevere to improve further.

    4. Milbourne/Tucker/GV – I think we’ve seen their best. They will improve incrementally, but I do not expect break-out imporvements from them.

    5. Hayes – we’ve also seen his best and I do not expect to see much more. I think he will have a reduced scoring role as a senior.

    6. Dupree – The kid needs a psycologist, IMO, more than a b-ball trainer.

    7. Goins/Kim – ???? I never saw Goins play. I know JSK got a lot of love from DBR, but from what I saw of JSK, he seemed lost on the floor. Both these guys are question marks to me.

  166. John – Don’t flatter yourself. The fact that the “blind optimists” (Gerry et al., in your opinion) apparently didn’t have much to say in response to your post is less evidence of their coming around to your side, and more likely due to their growing tired of responding to the same old argument. No disrespect; you’re entitled to your opinion, and to be honest, I agree with some of your points/observations. As many Soupers have pointed out, we’re ALL frustrated with the current state of MD basketball, and most of us believe that, to some degree, things must change. But amidst all the talk of relevance, mediocrity, who should start and who should come off the bench, whether specific players have lived up to expectations, etc., there is really one core difference between us – Some want Gary out, and others think he should stay. I, for one, am not happy with the last 7 years, and I have criticized this team and Gary’s recruiting efforts on numerous occasions. However, ultimately, I think Gary has earned the right to stay as long as he sees fit, and my opinion on the subject won’t change, barring some unforeseen disaster (“unforeseen disaster” to be defined at some later date . . .). Now, you may think that’s an untenable position, given the history of our program since 2002. Fine. But those who take my position (or some variation of), and/or those who are committed to the program as is, probably won’t be persuaded by the Terp haters, so-called pessimists/realists, and other randoms who tend to come out of the woodwork in droves after losses and slam the team. Again, I respect your position, and I know there are those who love MD just as much as I do (some loyal Soupers) but disagree re Gary. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

  167. I like the 7 seed alot (especially so I can watch the game, without having to sneak out of work). But it might end up favorable to play UNC the next day (who would that be, the 8/9 winner). Lawson is questionable for the ACC tourney.

  168. CT – I’ll second that.

  169. I pray GV stays. He’s the only player on this squad with any balls. But I think next year will mirror this year unless one of the prime time recruits lands here.

    By the way, what is up with all the love for DN. I know he plays hard, and he is a program guy, and he is a vocal leader on this team…BUT, he is a huge defensive liability. Don’t give me the undersized argument. Where should he play? He doesn’t have the athleticism to be a 3, the quickness or handling to be a 2, and we can all agree he can’t be a 1. He doesn’t belong on the court in ACC play. I watch him time and again attempt to front the post, and it’s a joke. He can’t. Guards can easily throw the ball over his outstretched finger tips because he has gator arms and a 6″ vertical. Can he even dunk? NC St killed him in the first half of that game, and likely would have won had they continued to feed the post. He is anything but a tenacious rebounder; and please avoid listing 1 or 2 examples of monster rebounds he’s had. I’ll give him credit for the pick on Nolan Smith and hitting some big 3’s (he certainly takes enough), but he is not equipped to be a regular on an ACC squad.

  170. Hahaha. GTown loses to St. John’s. Again.

  171. What’s more redundant:
    CT, AB, SM, JB, DG have major upside, or
    They don’t?
    Gary has earned the right to stay, or
    He hasn’t?

    Neither. The point being that everyone on here rehashes sentiments and not everyone is going to agree. Consequently, people will rehash contrary sentiments. It is unfair to call any one view point on here redundant, because, ultimately, we are all guilty of being repetitive in our viewpoints; whether it be on the Soup, or in ordinary daily interaction. It’s all subjective, and contrary viewpoints occasionally inspire insightful posts. So I say let the disagreement continue.

  172. Does JTIII deserve Worst Coach of the Year?

  173. Toby
    I think all of the points you made ARE the reason everyone likes Dave Neal. And also this team. Everyone knows their deficiencies, they have quite a few. But they scrap and have heart, take teams that are much better than them to the edge. Can’t deny how hard he tries to front the post player (who is often much taller/more athletic). I think in the preseason if anyone said Dave Neal would be our center all season people would’ve expected MUCH worse things than where we are. But here we are, and in no small part due to Neal.

  174. before we start “guaranteeing” that we will be better with williams and padgett; I’d like to remind everyone that Braxton Dupree was once a bigger more athletic Lonny Baxter. Eric Hayes was once Steve Blake with a better jumper. I will now lacerate my intestines

  175. Ugh. Had to play the Dupree card didn’t you…

  176. “….I think in the preseason if anyone said Dave Neal would be our center all season people would’ve expected MUCH worse things than where we are….”

    True. I thought our record in conference play was going to be about 5-11. For this team to have even made the bubble with almost no interior presence/scoring and spotty outside shooting was a major accomplishment, whereas in the past it was a failure.

  177. Guess all those 5-star recruits at G-town couldn’t get the job done. Maybe JT3 and GW should team up — JT recruits, but leaves the COACHING to Gary.

  178. Wow…I saw Raj’s post about Georgetown and had to rub my eyes. Hoya Saxa deez nuts.

  179. jonbruns,
    What are you smoking? this team has not overachieved in the least. They have 2 great wins and 2 horrific losses. They have been blown out 4 times. You can dismiss wins against the following, because we could probably assemble a team from this blog that could beat these teams:
    Bucknell, Youngstown St, Vermont (IN OT AT HOME!), GW, Delaware St, AU, Bryant, Elon, Charlotte.

    Against teams with similar talent they are 3-2, including:
    Va Tech, Miami (2x), BC, and Michigan, 4 of which were at home…hardly overwhelming.

    They have compiled 4 of their 7 ACC wins against the dregs of the conference:
    Ga Tech (2x), NC St, UVA (3 of which were at home, and none of which were convincing).

    Furthermore, Mich St would crap on us now. They played that game without Zoubek, and were looking forward to playing the likes of G’town, Tenn and Gonzaga in that tournament. Not to mention that we were completely out of character from 3 in that game.

    You can’t look at your preseason expectations based on the schedule. You have to look at it now. I think if you knew preseason exactly the quality of all the teams on MD’s schedule, you might have expected a game or two better than they are.

  180. Three-part expose on Gtown’s/JTIII’s fall from Final Four two years ago and top 10 ranking to bottom of the Big East? Prisbell? Dinich? Anyone? Bueller . . .

  181. Zoubek doesn’t play for Mich St but your point is well made that they were missing their starting post player.

  182. My bad. Zoubek, Suton…whatever. They were missing their eastern european oaf.

  183. Toby,
    Ha. Alls I saying is a lot of peeps during the season on this blog said 4-12. They are 7-9. I think you mean Suton for MSU and the point is well taken. Point is this team is not very talented and is 18-12 (7-9). Looking at the way our talent has progressed this season (Dupree, Gregory, Mosley, etc.) I think this team overachieved. Hell, lets wait to see what they do on Thursday and on. Maybe they will REALLY overachieve.

  184. All that’s next is to see Kentucky lose to Mississippi in two days. After that program ran off Tubby because he went 9 straight years without getting to the final four. Wonder how they feel now.

  185. So I guess it’s official, the best college basketball team in the DC area is…the UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND WOMEN!

  186. DBR – Don’t forget Montrose Christian… they would probably beat everyone, except for the MD women of course haha.

    Also there won’t be any articles in the post about Gtown’s failure because they don’t have fans, check out their message boards it is basically 3 guys talking to themseleves, and few opposing fans coming in to mock them.

  187. Kentucky should serve as a cautionary tale for us too. Fired Tubby, now they have a guy who couldnt coach the Showtime Lakers into the playoffs. With Jodie Meeks and Patrick Patterson, that team should be a 4 or 5 seed, not an NIT squad.

  188. I am so sick of the “undersized argument” when it comes to MD. Look at the rosters of most of their opponents. For example, Miami has no one over 6′ 9″, VT has no one over 6’9″ that plays, Duke has 1 player over 6’8″ that plays (and he gets 12 mpg), VT has no one over 6’9″ that gets more than a couple mpg, NC St has no one over 6’9″, BC has 1 player over 6’8″ that plays at all (he never plays).

    MD goes:
    Milbourne 6’7″
    Neal 6’7″
    Vasquez and Tucker 6’6″
    Burney 6’9″
    Gregory 6’7″
    and Hayes and Mosely are no midgets at 6’4″

    This team plays small, but they aren’t at a huge not disadvantage, height wise, at any point during a game.
    P.S. Gerald Henderson is only 6’4″…”it’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog”.

  189. Ok, I mistakenly added a “not”.

  190. Ok NC State has 3 guys at 6’9 and one really big guy at 6’7. And last I checked MD actually beat 3 of the 4 teams you mentioned and finished ahead of them in the standings so yes they may not be big but they also finished at the bottom of the league. Also you are ignoring Wake, FSU, Clemson and UNC who all happended to be at the top of ACC ranking and have huge deep frontlines.

  191. terps96 Montrose Christian is super good but it’s not a college :)

  192. Milbourne is more like 6-6 and Neal says he’s 6-7 “on a good day”.

  193. You can be 6’7 or 6’8 and be a natural 4 or 5 (like a Paul Milsap)… or you can be 6’6 or 6’7 like LM and DN and be much better suited for the 3. Weight and general post presence plays a big role in your relative size inside too, and all those teams you listed have guys who naturally like to play inside.

  194. yes, it’s more about length & strength sometimes than actual height

  195. Oh and here’s a chance for Soupers to have some fun. You can vote for Terp commit Jordan Williams for best HS player in Conn.

    http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/03/08/sports/doc49b3599c8fc79858716434.txt

  196. The difference is not 6’6″ vs 6’9″. Lonnie Baxter and Landon Milbourne are probably the same height. We are frickin’ “SMALL” as in basketball small. The only BCS conference teams that are even close to us are Nebraska and Oklahoma St. Even most good mid-major teams have at least one monster post player. We have Dino and Braxton who might or might not make an open layup.

    I think declining an NIT invitation is arrogant and not very smart. Guys like Bowie, Tucker, JSK, Dino could use the minutes of game experience against top competition. The team(s) we will play in the NIT are much tougher teams than most on our non-conference schedule.

    When Gary retires I think I want Anthony Grant. That VCU team was very well-prepared in the Colonial final. Wow. Outcoahed a very able and veteran coach right out of the block. I love Dave Dickerson (he’s one of us) but to give him “coach-in-waiting” after a mediocre stunt at Tulane (he did have many disadvantages) might or might not work. “Coach-in-waiting” Pat Knight has been a dismal failure. However, if an Anthony Grant comes here, does well, and a Kentucky calls he’s gone. Remember Bill Self? Kicked ass at Tulsa and finally got a big job at Illinois. Recruited kids that eventually went to a FF but left for Kansas before that. We are an “Illinois” guys not a “Kansas”, no matter how that may hurt our pride.

    The Pack are in BIG TROUBLE!!!

  197. terps96,

    Firstly, I mentioned 6 teams. Secondly, MD finished 4-4 against the teams I mentioned. Finally, if being big determines success, how do you explain Marquette. How do you explain how Villanova made a Sweet 16 with a 4 guard lineup. How do you explain Florida St staring at a 5 seed with the biggest team in the country. How do you explain G’town getting bounced in the Sweet 16 by Xavier with Mourning and Mutumbo. How do you explain the Bullets not making the playoffs with Muresan or Bol.
    You are making excuses, rationalizations.

    An NCAA D1 coach is responsible for both recruiting and scheming. These roles are not mutually exclusive. Telling everybody that GW is a great coach, because he gets the most out of shit, is porous. Being a great “coach” at this level encompasses more than milking all you can from what you got. You can argue that GW was a great coach. You can argue that on the court GW is currently a great coach, but this is only half of what being a great coach at this level consists of. This isn’t High School. He is paid near 2 mil. For that kind of $ you’re are expecting a great coach.

    It is equivalent to replying to a job post without reading the entire description. “Well, I have the Degree!”…Oh! But you hate dealing with people. You’re not the right fit. You’re SOL.

  198. I’ll disagree with your Illinois analogy Eddie. I think the better analogy is to the pre-Spurrier Florida Gators. We don’t have the scandal that they had then, but other than that, I think the parallels are striking. Rabid fan bases, all the talent in the world right in your backyard, and the limited success in the recent past. Are we gonna turn it around like they did with the multiple NCs? Maybe, but probably not. That said, I think UMD is a destination job for most coaches, not a stepping stone to an even better job.

  199. You’re saying Florida in Football, Raj?

  200. The NIT is run by the NCAA. If we turn it down, we are never getting in off the bubble again. We are never turning down an NIT bid. We should stop talking about this as if it is a real possibility.

  201. Toby either = John or they should take turns posting. You don’t like GW and don’t think we over achieved this year, we get it. We all read it the first 20 times and totally understand your laser like perception.

    We got it.

  202. turn down the NIT?!?!
    why, cause we’re too good for it?
    everybody is back next year, we could use some post-season experience.

  203. Here’s a good game — not counting the ACC schools — compare the MD coaching job with all the other coaching jobs in the country. Let’s say that it’s 3 years from now and we need a new coach. We have an open offer to anyone. What programs would be able to keep their current coach against an off from Maryland?

    Here’s my list:
    UConn
    G’town
    Louisville
    Kansas
    Texas?
    Kentucky
    Florida
    Michigan St.
    UCLA
    Arizona

    Who else would you put in there or take away?

    Anyone else I’m missing?

  204. Jeremy, you may be onto something about the NCAA’s treatment of UMD basketball. Back in 1974, when only the ACC Champ went to the NCAA Tournamet, the Terps lost the ACC Championship game and were invited to the NIT.

    The team turned down the invite.

    Maybe this is why our kids get hung up in the clearinghouse and why some years our bubble burst?

  205. Yeah, I meant football. I reread my post, and I realize I didn’t make that as clear as I wanted to.

    And Chrs0049, I think it depends on what you mean with your list. If youre saying which jobs are more desirable, then I don’t think Texas makes that list… or Florida for that matter. Those are football schools, and no matter what, the bball team will always be the thing that holds over the fan base till spring practice. That said, if offered the job, Rick Barnes isn’t coming here. A lot of it is dependent on the coach himself and where he feels most comfortable.

    I also think you might be missing Indiana from that list… I know they suck now after the mess Sampson got them into, but they are a basketball blueblood, and they’ll be back. Youre also definitely missing Dook, UNC, and (possibly) Syracuse. Look at that list… its a pretty select group of schools. I don’t think there will be a problem convincing the next coach to come here (and I’m not shoving Gary out yet) the dilemma will be choosing the right guy for our program out of a very talented field.

  206. Ah, didnt see the ACC schools thing. My bad.

  207. That’s a good list. I would add a few not necessarily because they’re a better program than Maryland but can be considered at least equal.

    Duke, Syracuse and Indiana

  208. Here’s a novel idea. If the team thinks they are too good for the NIT? Prove it. Go out and try to win the damn thing. I haven’t given up an NCAA tourney bid by a long shot yet. But I do get pissed in past years when we feel slighted by not receiving a bid to the NCAA tourney and come out at home and lose to Manhattan, etc. If it should happen that way they should accept the NIT invite and TRY TO WIN.

  209. Yes ‘Cuse and Indiana are good adds to that list; I qualified it w/ no ACC schools because there is no way that a coach would switch jobs with in the conference.

  210. I agree that my perception is like a laser.

    I could make the same accusation that most on here are the same person. I love GW unconditionally. I don’t dwell on recent results, look at the past. Who cares about this season, because so and so is showing signs of being a potential ACC all conference honorable mention 2 years from now. I LOVE THESE KIDS BECAUSE THEY REALLY TRY AND THEY PLAY HARD.

    The effort of this team is as streaky as they are. Their inconsistencies on the court are more related to effort and passion than talent. Who do you blame for that?

    It is incumbent upon fans to demand more. Eternal optimism and inconsequential support breeds complacency. Keep buying your season tickets. Keep making your donations. Do you think Yow gives a rat’s ass how the team performs? Not so long as it’s profitable, and her fascist policies are obeyed.

    PS Please stop referring to MD players as kids. It’s condescending. They may be immature, but they’re old enough to vote, file as an independent, and die for their country. There are plenty of “kids” their age making $$$$ in pro sports, entertainment, and on the web. They’re not kids. They’re not above criticism.

  211. Toby _ I am reluctant to go here but your posts dictates same.

    The N.I.H. (that’s National Institute of Health) had released studies as far back as 2002 that indicated ” a childs’ brain has not fully matured until about age 25″ . Please don’t even debate this with me. Teen highways deaths were best categorized as follows –
    “Msost teen death are due to speed and alcohol or substance abuse. As such teens fully recocnize the thrill of the speed but not the consequences of thier acitons.”

    Kids will be kids and so will our teen aged terps. Nothing condescending about this but
    they are kids. Book sense rarely ever transcends common sense. Our terps are still developing and learning. If some NCAA teams have what appears are “manchild” players in kids uniforms they are still (psycologically) kids.

    That’s why I said earlier, some Soupers expectations actually exceed the “mortal
    abilities”of our kids.

    Surely not condescending but nontheless …..realistic. They are still kids, but “no” that not above criticism either.

    What they say is not as important as what they do.

    Hope this helps.

  212. Toby–Everytime you post you prove yourself to be a complete damn dope. Is there anybody on this team that is not worthless. I like Neal,GV,alot and am glad they are on our team. If you think the KIDS are trying hard but are just not that talented, then applaud then and get off their ass. I think GW does deserve his goods and bad for the season. He recruited these KIDS blame him and not the guys for their stats. I for one can only complain that is too late to try to catch up and be a aggressive recruiter. GO TURTLES

  213. Toby needs to shut the fuck up for real. Go crawl under a rock. It’s been a rough week and with Thursday coming up, I don’t need your dumb words across my screen. Go drop your lines at the Baltimore Sun or something.

  214. Toby…it’s easy to point out the exception to the rule…but the rule is still the rule. The last team this small to do anything at the national level was Illinois back in the early 1990s. All 5 starters were under 6’6″.

    VCU even has a big kid in the middle who had a monster game against GMU…who also has players taller than 6’7″.

    MD plays small because they are small. If Burney was healthy and Dupree wasn’t so soft, this would be a different story.

  215. Damn… Cleveland State beat Butler.

  216. Ricksterps — no need to get personal. Everyone has different viewpoints on here that is what makes it interesting.

    And everyone knows you think Gary has done a great job and overachieved by guiding the Terps to their 4th NIT in 5 years and having a team that is not getting better each year but worse and with less prospects than the year before. Just because I and many others don’t think that warrants high praise and drooling over these great accomplishments doesn’t make our opinions any less worthy. Especially since these “opinions” in my case at least are backed up 100% by FACTS…

  217. At least you “both” didn’t come with the same subject once again :)

    Well done toby-john

  218. Toby / (John) “It is incumbent upon fans to demand more.”
    I think we do demand more, if you have read this board over the past couple of years no one is happy with settling for the NIT. The pressure from fans that has spilled over to the press has probably resulted in a renewed effort by Gary and coaches to step up the recruiting effort. The empty seats in the alum sections are sending a message to the AD, the great and fair minded Debbie Yow.
    However, at the end of the day we either have to decide that given the situation were in we have to trust in Gary to bring us back to prominence or we should throw him overboard and take our chances that someone new will do it.
    A majority of us on this board prefer the former, but plenty prefer the latter.

  219. Well put, harryfish. If demanding more means calling for Gary’s head, then I guess I’m settling. I just don’t see it that way.

    Re Yow, no one can argue with her success, but I’ll reserve judgment re her fair-mindedness. I don’t care how bad the relationship is, no AD should ever come out publicly against his/her coach like Yow has this year (referring to both the pre-season Terell Evans’ criminal history debacle and the dust-up over why Evans and Gus didn’t end up at MD).

  220. Speaking of height – Wes Unseld, was flipp’n 6’5″. Who do you want as your center? Milbourne, Neal or Gregory – who are all taller – or Wes? Speaking of which, I really, really like Gregory’s game…but he needs to add 15 pounds to keep from being pushed around.

    Jeremy, I think you are missing my point when I say next year’s team will be better. I’m basing that mostly on improvement of the existing players – not on a savior freshman arriving. (Besides, hoping for a brighter future is part of being a fan.)

    I’ve said it before, but it’s worth repeating. In the NCAA, guard play is much, much more important than forward play. When the Terps guards outplay their opponents and shoot well – UNC and MSU, for example – they proved that they can beat bigger teams. AB almost single-handedly beat Miami. The terps won many games this year even though their forwards were being outplayed.

    When the Terp guards disappear, which happened too frequently, including the last 30 minutes against uva, then the Terps can’t beat anyone.

    Sometimes – like the WF and 2nd dook game – the guard play between the teams is about the same. In those games, the better and stronger forwards tilt the game. These are the tweener games that a more aggressive front court may help with.

  221. The Miami/Tech winner just drew a huge break with Lawson being out for that first round game. UNC is a totally different team without him on the court. Many think he should be the ACC player of the year.

    Not surprisingly, all the talk down here from NC State is about shutting down GV. I expect zone and maybe even a box-and-one early in the game. Someone else is going to have to step up in order for our Terps to move on.

  222. I’m pretty sure Wes Unseld was 6-7 not 6-5 but the point is that Unseld was undersized for his position. Clearly Unseld was able to make up for his lack of height due to his strength and his determination. I don’t think he ever saw a missed shot that shouldn’t be his rebound…and what an outlet pass.

    Effin sucks that Butler lost.

  223. Nice article summing up the season. The last paragraph says it all as far as I am concerned. http://www.accsports.com/articles/200903104916/terps-insider-williams-survives-wild-ride.php

  224. Toby – Hang in there. Sooner or later everyone on this site says something smart.

    There are some that are thin skinned but we value their input. Makes for good exchanges.

    Odd that you did not respond to my “kids” N.I.H research.

  225. DBR…it’s going to effin sux if MD loses to NCST…

    No one on here can tell me that they feel good about MD beating NCST. The Lion of Caracas better show up huge; otherwise, we’ll all be fighting over that wasted 3 at the end of the regular season game between MD and NCST.

    He better put his money where his mouth is. I can feel myself getting pissed at him already.

    By the way, I, too, think MD would be a better team without GV. To me, it’s addition by subtraction. When GV is no longer there, the rest of the team has no one to defer to. Everyone will have to step up….much like the Blake/Nicholas team did after Juan, Lonny, and Mouton left. That Blake-led team was a really good team. They got scoring from across the roster.

    If GV goes, Hayes goes back to the 1, Bowie/Tucker play the 2 with their different styles, LM goes back to the 3 and becomes that mid-range scorer full-time, and then the frontcourt will be what it is…which is to say that no one knows what that frontcourt will be.

    If Burney can’t play because of medical reason, MD could shift his scholarship over to an academic scholarship. That open up another slot. Let him redshirt next year on an academic ride and switch him back the following year. I think Lance is a better get than Vinson. Vinson is Milbourne. Lance creates and gets to the rim. He’s also big enough to rebound and isn’t afraid of it.

  226. Wes was listed at 6’7″, but he only got there if you included his afro.

    Dupree wins an award, or something, as the anti-unseld.

  227. “Nice article summing up the season. The last paragraph says it all as far as I am concerned. http://www.accsports.com/articles/200903104916/terps-insider-williams-survives-wild-ride.php

    Very true. Thanks for the link. The team really did look worn out in the UVA game. Milbourne and Bowie, in particular, seem mentally exhausted. I don’t know what’s going on with Tucker, but he’s been worthless. Maybe there’s been too much pressure, with every game being a “must-win”. Perhaps with five days rest, they will bounce back strong for NC State. But, like I wrote before, this is going to be a tough game to win. NC State is going to key hard on Vaz and force the rest of the team to beat them. And they would be stupid not to pound the ball inside on every possession, as that worked so well before. It has seemed like a year since the UVA game and the tournament doesn’t start until tomorrow. Tom Petty was right when he sang that the waiting is the hardest part.

    Over at the Georgetown blog at the WaPo, they are already talking about a DC local bracket for the NIT with Gtown, GMason, VTech, and us. Would enjoy another crack at Gtown if the desperation NCAA bid doesn’t work out. Don’t know if Gtown is even good enough for the NIT at this point, though. LOL. My hatred for them goes back to the Lefty-John Thompson feud back in the Seventies and early Eighties. Gtown knocked us out of the NCAAs one year. Never liked JT, thought he was rather pompous. His son JTIII is okay, but according to the Gtown bloggers, he had a lobotomy in early January and turned into Craig Esherick.

  228. Re: Toby

    DNFTT

  229. Taran Buie update:

    As I mentioned a week or so ago, Marquette has entered the picture. Since he hasn’t visited that school yet I’m anticipating their entrance to slow things down a bit. Buie has visited UMD unofficially twice, has visited Notre Dame and goes to PSU from time to time to see his brother play but I don’t think he’s taken an official visit anywhere yet. Oh and then there’s Georgia Tech who I don’t think he’s visited yet either.

    His AAU team starts play in a few weeks in the Boo Williams Invitational in VA in April. If you’re in that area it’s a good chance to see several Terp targets.

  230. What does DNFFT mean? And NIH? Seriously? Oh, and how dare you GERRY!

  231. Or DNFTT I should say.

  232. DNFFT = Do Not Feed The Troll. It means don;t respond to provocation on a blog. As in, ignore him/her/it/

  233. I don’t know about some of you guys but for me getting rid of Gary is not even an option . I’m not a “fan” of Maryland basketball. I’m a fan of the Orioles or the Bears. The Terps are “family”. You take the good with the bad. Gary is family. We both have a degree from the same institution. We both spent 4 of our most formative years in the same place. I feel the same way about our players. Some of them frustrate me for 4 years but after they leave I follow their careers the best I can and root for them. When Lonnie got in trouble with the gun I didn’t feel critical of him but rather sadness and dissapointment like a concerned uncle. I guess that’s why I can’t comprehend some of the bloggers that take a detached, critical approach. Different points of view I guess.

  234. Eddie…I see your point…but consider the following:

    If you had a nephew addicted to alcohol or drugs and had really hit bottom, would you participate in an intervention that could result in you cutting all ties to your nephew?

    Maybe some of you find this analogy off base. The point is that when you have something you care about (MD Hoops), do you stage an intervention? If Gary is what you care or confound MD hoops with Gary, that is a different issue. I find Gary and MD hoops as a program different from each other. What I care about is the university and it’s programs, whether academic or athletic. My loyalty is to the institution on the whole not its members.

    Personally, I think that next year will end up quite like this year, which means that all of the reasons to keep Gary this year will again be made next year (continuity of recruiting, the spectre of a bad year following the departure, a chance to build on this year’s tantilizingly close to okay year, Gary’s earned any time he wants, etc.). To me, Gary needs to show dramatic improvement in the success of the team. To me, that means a NCAA invite. To me, bubble = MD is not a sign of relevance but rather a sign of mediocrity.

    I know Gary will return next year and likely the year after. I fully expect this debate to resume next year just like it has the previous 4 years on this site. MD will start out strong, renewing our hope that MD has gained relevance and turned the corner. MD will go through a bad spell in the middle part of the year, followed by a couple of strong wins. MD will close out the season by losing to a team it shouldn’t and be faced with another “must” win first round ACC game.

    Why should I expect any different? Look at the titles of Jeremy’s threads over the past few years. It’s deja vu all over again. It’s groundhog day.

    Am I right about this pattern continuing? Who knows? No one knows. But this pattern has happened over the past 5 years…every year over that span, so why should I think next year will provide anything different?

    Do I like and respect Gary and praise him for all he’s accomplished? Yes. Do I think we should hold him to the expectations he’s set? Yes. Do I think his past merits uncondicitonal support? No. This is, after all, a business.

    In my opinion, MD needs to enter rehab. I’m willing to stage an intervention now or in the future. When is bottom? A losing season or continued middling?

  235. Yes Wheels. That’s the question. When is enough enough?
    I thought DNFTT might mean Do Not Fear The Turtle.

  236. If youre near a TV put on the Big East tournament… DePaul is beating Providence.

  237. LOL re Do Not Fear The Turtle. Well played, Toby. Well played.

    An additional question for those of you have determined that enough IS enough — What, in your opinion, will it take to return MD to “relevance” . . . ? Wheels, you equate dramatic improvement with an NCAA bid, but we were only 1-2 games away from a bid this year, and most of the Soup pessimists would consider 2008-09 to have been a colossal failure (apologies to those who think we still have a shot to make the Tourney this year). More importantly, will simply getting back to the Dance really silence Gary’s critics? If our consecutive years in the Tourney streak were still alive today, but we hadn’t advanced past the second round since 2002, wouldn’t we be having the same argument right now? I have a buddy from MD who, during the 1999-2000 season, bought the rights to the URL firegarywilliams.com. Just two years later, he was taking pictures with Gary on Capitol Hill after the national championship. It’s all relative.

  238. Damn, Providence went on a run and now has pulled ahead.

  239. Don’t fire Gary let him quit to spend time with his grand children. Kentucky looks like they are about to get a new coach if they don’t go dancing. Terps should be top 5 in the ACC every year and top 25 in the nation. That is success. That is what Duke and UNC enjoy. These kids can play but they can also blow a game with a hard head in a minute. Maybe an extreme makeover is what is needed. So don’t fire retire.

  240. I agree CT. It is all relative. Someone earlier mentioned Tubby Smith. UK ran him out for not getting to the final four enough.
    Every time we have not received a bid to the NIT we have been 1-2 games short. We are always in the conversation just a game short. I think a lot of that has to do with the changing landscape in college basketball. The improvement of Mid-majors make it much more difficult to get into the tourney than in years past. A couple years ago (maybe George Mason’s year?) the selection committee was absolutely in love with mid-majors.

  241. I nod my head in respect.

    Toby is an initialsim wizard.

  242. Oops, initialism.

  243. An Acronym Wizard?

  244. Although definitions of these terms is kind of loosey-goosey, I consider acronyms to be things like SALT (Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty) and WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get). Then when the initials are pronounced as the letters themselves like F.A.Q. and I.R.A., that is an initialism.

    End of today’s attempted lesson.

  245. Ahhh, never heard that before. You learn something new everyday!


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